How treatment-resistant feline IBS symptoms healed in one month (not just by food)

 How treatment resistant feline IBS symptoms healed in one month (not just by food)

Lovely Miette, who feels much better now!

Deborah was at her wit’s end.

Those were her exact words when she first told me what her cat, Miette, was going through and how it was affecting both of their lives.

Her 3-year old cat had recurrent IBS symptoms, particularly diarrhea, chronically loose stools, and vomiting.  Miette had so much gastrointestinal distress that Deborah could frequently feel and hear her gut gurgling.

Miette was also restless through the night, and would almost always vomit stomach acid at some point in the middle of the night. Cleaning up after her cat was a constant vigil everyday and was becoming overwhelmingly distressful.

But, good news! That has all changed.

In this post, I’ll share the most useful info we can glean from Deborah’s story, which should help you if you are in a similar situation.

Here’s our interview, with commentary from me.

Over 2 years of struggle with extreme IBS symptoms

DEBORAH: I adopted Miette from a Persian rescue group. She’s what they call a silver chinchilla Persian. She was about a year old when I got her and she had some problems off and on from the beginning.

I switched her food to W/D (Science Diet) after a while, which had worked for another cat I had, but this time WD didn’t solve it. Her frequent diarrhea would come and go.

I would change her food and for 10 to 15 days she would be fine then it would come back. Then I would try something else, each time with the same result.  I also tried feeding her a very bland diet of boiled chicken and rice, but nothing worked consistently and this went on for almost two years.

I was just so upset and frustrated.  Miette was in such distress that she didn’t always make it to the litter box. I had moved and had brand new carpeting in the bedrooms which was quickly becoming soiled – I was using carpet cleaner every day. And daily I was having to rinse off her rear end before she sat on furniture or bedding. I covered couches and chairs with towels or blankets that I could wash, but it was, of course, the one square inch that wasn’t covered that she inevitably found. I had to remember to keep the bedroom doors closed to protect the carpet.  Managing all this was totally consuming my life.

 How treatment resistant feline IBS symptoms healed in one month (not just by food)

It was a life of towels and clean up

I really got to the point of thinking, what am I going to do? I love my cat but I can’t live like this. I can’t give her away I can’t put her down… I was beside myself, thinking, I’m going to have to remove the carpet in one of the bedrooms and keep her in there with furniture she couldn’t destroy, but that idea just broke my heart... I was in tears.

Conventional treatments that didn’t work out

DEBORAH: I took her to the vet several months ago. They did a full blood panel and a fecal and all the tests came back negative (almost $500 later).

They put her on an antibiotic called Flagyl, used to treat certain parasitic and bacterial infections…The vet also changed her food to a formula containing duck and peas (in case she had a food allergy – and because it’s easier on the gastrointestinal system).  And third, the vet had me add FortiFlora powder to her food.

This combination of things literally worked overnight in terms of the diarrhea. Life dramatically improved – but again only for a couple weeks.

{Note from Liz: FortiFlora has only one type of probiotic in it. I believe this is one reason it fails to work lasting miracles for some cats. Also, when vets tests for bacteria and parasites, they can only test for a small percentage of the many types of bugs out there. I believe that’s why they didn’t find anything in Miette’s tests, even though antibiotics appeared to help temporarily.}

We tried a couple more changes in food, and that made a difference, but again only for a couple weeks at the most…

The vet told me the next step would be to do an ultrasound and an endoscopy, where they would go down and see what was going on in the intestinal tract.

LIZ: What was the diagnosis?

DEBORAH: They said it could be an allergy…but it was likely to be Irritable Bowel Syndrome or something similar. The result would probably be that they would put her on Prednisone or another steroid, which would not be a cure, but most likely a lifetime routine.  Those invasive – and very expensive – procedures just did not feel right to me…

LIZ: So with everything you tried, she’d often get better but then 10 – 15 days later it was the back to same symptoms?

DEBORAH: Yes. When I talked to Vitality Science, they told me that this is something they see regularly and what happens is that after about 10 days the body acclimates to this new food and it goes back to its old system – the IBS or the inflammation. Sometimes that was one of their hints that it was something like IBS or a similar intestinal inflammation issue.

How Miette healed in a month

LIZ: When Deborah first talked to me about her Miette woes, she was wanting to avoid the invasive procedure and possibly the steroids too.

I told her I had a lot of faith Miette could resolve these symptoms. Because, with my background, I had seen these problems resolved for humans via certain diet and gut flora healing protocols – and I knew this approach is far easier to do with cats than humans!

I suggested she try the most simple, grain-free wet food possible. And I suggested looking into an advanced pet probiotic product I’ve used from Vitality Science. (Not only am I impressed with their knowledge, they also claim a 97% success rate with gastrointestinal issues and have a money-back guarantee.)

Deborah tried a new simple, grain-free wet food and Miette’s symptoms temporarily cleared up – only to return a couple weeks later, as usual.

But, meanwhile, she was already investigating the Vitality Science site I recommended.

DEBORAH: I saw they had a product called Treatment-Resistant Cat & Kitten Diarrhea/Vomiting Protocol, which was a combination of 3 items – Feline Comfort Plus {this includes the many probiotic strains in their Pet Flora product}, GI Distress Formula, and Luxolite {a special hydrated clay}. 

When I called them they said that’s what they would recommend, and that they frequently saw a difference in pets within 2-3 days. So I ordered it – seemed expensive but was actually no more than a visit to the vet, and I really liked the idea of treating her with more natural ingredients and avoiding invasive treatments and steroids.

I started giving it to her Wednesday night and by Saturday I had not noticed any results. I wanted to make sure I understood the instructions correctly, so I called on Saturday and before I even got off the phone with the answering service my other line was ringing!

 How treatment resistant feline IBS symptoms healed in one month (not just by food)

Things were beginning to look up

The customer service people were right on it. It is a small, family-owned company and the woman I spoke to was the daughter.

She recommended stopping the GI Distress Formula because she said that it might reduce the effectiveness of one of the other products.  She also told me to increase the amounts of the other two products, and to call in another 3 or 4 days.

I went through waiting, watching, and calling a couple times. They told me that this product helped heal the intestinal walls, which were probably terribly inflamed over a huge period of time, and  that it takes a while to actually heal the inflammation and so it’s not one of those things that’s going to happen in three days.

And then, by the 10th day everything had changed!

My cat was having firm poops finally. And in the litterbox.

Flabbergasted

deb head shot02 How treatment resistant feline IBS symptoms healed in one month (not just by food)

Deborah, Miette’s loving guardian

DEBORAH: After 10 more days on the formulas, I called Vitality Science back to report that Miette seemed perfect.

I wanted to know what the next step was … did I need to continue to add this to her food for the rest of her life?  Or was there a different product that I should transition to? I was, frankly, flabbergasted when they replied “no.”

They said that what had happened was that her intestinal tract had healed finally.  She explained too that the walls of Miette’s  intestinal tract had most likely been raw and bleeding, and everything I fed her just continued to aggravate her.

She told me to gradually reduce the amount of the formulas I was giving her, so I reduced by half for a few days, and then in half again, and weaned her down to nothing in about 10 days.

It’s now two months later since I stopped giving her the products and she is perfect. It’s like night and day and she is on no medication or formulas whatsoever.

I have continued feeding her the EVO chicken/turkey (which she loves) and I am elated that she is still having what I joyously refer to as “pretty poop.”

It’s really unbelievable. Vitality Science could have sold me another product and told me to keep giving it to her regularly and I would have done it…(even at what I anticipated to be $90 a month!).  I was so impressed with them when they told me “you don’t need anything.”

Dosing details

LIZ: Even though people should call their customer service to get exact dosages on a case-by-case basis, can you clarify your exact dosing with Miette?

DEBORAH. When I first started, I added 1/2 teaspoon of the Feline Comfort Plus and 1/2 teaspoon of the Luxolite to her meal. You mix the two together in the food. They can’t be mixed ahead of time because they lose their potency. And then when I talked to them a few days later, they had me increase it to ¾ of a teaspoon 3 times a day with her food.

LIZ: And so you increased them just once until it was time to decrease them, right?

DEBORAH: Yes…I kept her at 3/4 teaspoon of each three times per day. When it was time to decrease, I gave her 1/2 teaspoon 3 times a day for several days, and then to 1/4 teaspoon three times a day, then twice a day, then once a day.  Her condition remained stable, and then I stopped giving it to her.  The decrease period was about 10 days overall.

So after about a month all her symptoms had disappeared and we had “pretty poops” consistently.

Looks good, feels good, sleeps soundly now

LIZ: I remember you said that she seemed more at ease as her condition improved.

 How treatment resistant feline IBS symptoms healed in one month (not just by food)

Pain free and relaxed now!

DEBORAH: Yes…she had been so restless and once she started feeling better she would go to sleep next to me all night. She wasn’t up running around half the night. She would sleep soundly for long periods of time.

And I would put my hand on her belly like I had before and I wasn’t feeling all that rumbling… She also stopped the nightly throwing up of stomach acid.

She looks great. She feels great. She probably put on a little bit of weight. She was always small, weighing about 5 pounds. And her hair looks fuller and fluffier, feels less dry.

The thing that’s so sad to me is that is that I didn’t realize how much stress she was actually in. People and animals get diarrhea, but I didn’t tie it to severe discomfort. For all that time she was stressed and she was actually in pain. I feel so badly that I didn’t recognize that she was in pain and so uncomfortable.  When I think about it now, I just envision how her intestinal tract was so raw that it was bleeding and I would see bits of red blood in her stool sometimes, and how painful that must have been for her.

But now – no more diarrhea or loose stools or cleaning up after her – and I smile every time I see “pretty poops!”

LIZ: I am very happy for both of you. You’ve been such a devoted cat mom to her.

 How treatment resistant feline IBS symptoms healed in one month (not just by food)

Miette

The resources that worked for Deborah

After getting Miette on a very simple wet food, Deborah did not see lasting results or healing until she used these resources:

  • Vitality Science is the company that guided her through the process: They have a money-back guarantee if they can’t help you get results. They provide lots of education, including free customer service to help you choose formulas and dosages.

Specifically, these are the Vitality Science products that healed Miette in 30 days (and then were not needed!):

P.S. By the way, Deborah is a great Certified Martha Beck personal life coach.  She specializes in guiding you to find your own peace and purpose as you bridge the gap between the life you have now and the life of your dreams. If that sounds good to you, contact her or check out her website, WalkingAlongside.com, for a complimentary 30-minute consultation to find out more.

, , ,

190 Responses to How treatment-resistant feline IBS symptoms healed in one month (not just by food)

  1. Ashley September 27, 2014 at 7:39 pm #

    My cat, Holly, started having constipation problems soon after I adopted her from a shelter in 2010. I’ve tried giving her W/D and R/D prescription diets, but they only worked for a short while; they also left her hungry and begging for food, made her skin peel off in chunks, caused her fur to become dry and brittle and break off, and of course they made her gain weight. Supplements didn’t do a thing for her. I finally gave up on Hill’s and started trying grain-free “healthier” diets; they helped for a few weeks, but ultimately she ended up with more constipation complete with enemas. In December 2013 I started noticing her straining in the litter box again; the vet assumed it was constipation, and gave me the usual suggestions: lots of Laxatone gel, and get her to drink more water. It didn’t work, and over Christmas Holly got worse; I finally took her to another vet (cheaper), and he thought Holly had a UTI, and prescribed Clavamox……….which made her sick as a dog. One night in early January, I knew the antibiotcs hadn’t worked since she was straining in the litter box again, but it was too snowy to take Holly out on the bus, so I called a “home visit” vet……….bit mistake!!!!! He said Holly had gastritis, told me he’d give Holly an injection to make her feel better, and offered me pills as well as a digestive enzyme; when I told him I couldn’t afford all of that, and I’d only take the digestive enzymes (which made Holly puke), he got mad and wouldn’t sign my insurance claim. After lots of web-surfing, I finally found a vet’s office I felt comfortable taking Holly to (after lots of unanswered phone calls, I refused to take Holly back to her original vet). Holly was diagnosed with struvite stones, and put on Royal Canin S/O………….and hospitalized a week later with severe constipation. NOTE: S/O food is NOT good for cats with severe constipation issues, despite Royal Canin telling me they’ve never had any customers complain!!!!!!!!! Two days in the ER hospital with lots of laxatives and enemas, and I brought Holly home…………only to go back a week later with the same problem. Holly had to stay on this food for 4 weeks, though, in order to get rid of the stones, so we persisted, with lots of Restoralax, Cisapride, and added water in syringes. After the four weeks and a negative urinalysis, I begged the vet to find a different food for Holly, one that would help the constipation and not cause stones…………..it took a couple of weeks, but a nutritionist from Royal Canin recommended Fiber Response. Within a week, Holly could poop, was off her laxatives and Cisapride!!!!!!!! HOWEVER………….the food (in my opinion) has no nutritional value to it……….there isn’t even any real MEAT. Holly’s skin and fur got worse, she was always hungry, AND she gained more weight. I knew the food was horrible, and was constantly looking for alternatives……..but was warned not to take Holly off the diet OR to use any other food with it, or her constipation would come back. I worked with a vet technician for three months, trying to get Holly to lose weight, but she kept losing and gaining the same few grams, AND she was starving. Finally I asked if we could add canned food, knowing it would fill her up more, and had more water, so hopefully she’d lose weight. I was given a choice of Hill’s or Royal Canin urinary formulas (pet store food was highly NOT recommended, because we had to make sure Holly’s stones didn’t return). AAAAAAHHHHHH!!!! I was fed up with Hill’s, so I chose Royal Canin……….and Holly ended up back in the vet’s office, needing more enemas. I was learning, but slowly!!!! I finally found a “best canned cat food list” online, and started trying PET STORE FOODS (behind my vet’s back). Slowly Holly started to lose weight, her skin and fur improved, she started to play again………….and her constipation came back. Started increasing the Restoralax and Cisapride. After a month of constant worrying about what I’d find in the litter box, I finally (thought I) got smart…….and started feeding Holly a raw diet (which she LOVED). I ordered TC Feline Premix (the Special Formula without the bones), and chopped up skinless, boneless chicken thighs (don’t have a grinder). For three weeks I kept hoping this diet was “the one”. I knew that raw diets produced less stool, but wasn’t prepared for no poop for 3, 4, 5, or 6 days at a time. Three more trips to the vet, one for a urinary tract infection (due to the constipation I was told), and I was told to take Holly off the raw diet and put her back on Fiber Response. Frustrated, angry, and feeling unheard (raw was best for urinary tract issues), I took Holly to an internal medicine specialist for a second opinion. Nobody had any answers for Holly’s lack of poop…………even though she was getting Restoralax, Cisapride, pumpkin, Psyllium, Dr. Maggie’s oil, and pumpkin. They all blamed the raw diet, and told me if Holly didn’t go back on the Fiber Response, she would end up needing a subtotal collectomy. I was devastated, knowing all the problems this diet created (despite allowing her to poop)……..but I had nowhere else to turn. I emailed Vitality Science after seeing another kitty’s story, hoping for a “cure”……..but even they told me that they didn’t know how to help Holly, and suggested a Holistic vet; after nine months of continuous vet bills, though, my Visa is maxed out, and I can’t afford to take her to one, so I put Holly back on the Fiber Response yesterday (unwillingly). I feel like I just signed her death certificate.

    All this to ask………….why can’t my baby poop when fed a raw diet, or even a healthy canned food (no bones in any of it)????? She was getting lots of water (I always added some to her food—had to keep those stones away—and she wouldn’t drink water on her own), and all those laxatives, but still her food was stuck inside of her. Granted, when she was given the enemas, the stools were soft and normal size around, but after 3-6 days in her colon, there was lots of it. I hate what this Fiber Response diet is going to do to Holly’s health, and want to get her back on a raw diet…………IF I know she can poop while eating it.

    Sorry for the long history………..my baby has been through the wringer in her short life (she’s only almost-six years old). Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas would be GREATLY appreciated!!!!!!!!!! Thanks SO VERY MUCH for taking the time to read Holly’s story.

    • joanne September 27, 2014 at 9:43 pm #

      I am very sorry to hear about holly.. I am going through so much with moose. He is starting to turn around, but still slides back…The good is starting to outweigh the bad. I would consult with a holistic vet.. Probably the best thing would be an xray or ultra sound. At least you could see inside. I would ask steve at vitality science too. Moose was starving to death as well. I did discover he was allergic to chicken. There are some real good limited diets. Hounds and gatos. evo etc…There are so many things. I know a lady who’s cat has mega colon. She finally did surgery on the cat. I know that raw is a great diet…. And I know that dry is the worst thing to feed a cat. Cats are meat eaters and shouldn’t eat grain either.

      I do use a holistic vet online who works with my vet here locally. I have come to the conclusion that so many allopath vets seem to not want to bother with holistic meds. You can contact vitality science and see what they think. I Keep logs with moose. and tonight, he had some diarr again. But, I learned that he may be eating to much food. I have been cutting back and resting his bowel. But per your cat, there could be something inside of her that maybe physical. If that is the case, at least you will know. I can tell you this, I lost one cat while in texas…I was so upset with that vet. They wanted money and suggested all these tests. No matter what tests were done, it was not enough. I don’t trust many vets either. There are times I think if only I knew then what I know now…

      I know how much you love your cat. There has to be reasons for the constipation. Gastritis is nasty. I have had that too. But if there is nothing physically wrong with Holly, then it has to be diet… I know what its like to not know and feel helpless. And that was when I felt like I was guided to the VS site. its been slow. And when moose slips back, I have to go back and see what I did that may have added to it. Google up holistic vets in your area…I don’t like all those rx diets either. I think that most commercial foods have so much in them, its no wonder are cats have digestive issues.

      I am a learning myself. And I wish I could offer you a cure. But if its not a physical condition, it has to be diet or perhaps an allergy…

      take care
      joanne

      • Ashley September 28, 2014 at 8:34 am #

        Hi Joanne,

        Thank you SO MUCH for sharing your story about Moose, and for all your suggestions. Holly actually has had x-rays (confirming she was constipated but didn’t yet have megacolon, and that all her organs and bones were in good shape and not causing the constipation) Her ultrasound and neurological exams were normal. I contacted Vitality Science, but Stephen emailed me back saying he didn’t know how to help Holly’s condition. He thought the vaccines she received at the shelter before I adopted Holly could be the problem. He, too, suggested a holistic vet, and while I do agree with him and you and everyone else about that, AND I know that this prescription food is going to make Holly’s health worse……..I don’t have any more money to put out towards a holistic vet. I’m still giving Holly SOME raw food (mixing her meds in with her food is the only way I can give them to her), but the specialist is going to be phoning me this week, expecting an update, AND expecting that I would have transitioned Holly back to the prescription food EXCLUSIVELY. I either have to lie to her (which I hate doing), or try to somehow get across to her that 1) there is no meat in the dry food, 2) Holly is already starving on the amount of dry food I can give her (the calories are 2 1/2 times more than what my raw food is), and 3) she has already stopped playing, choosing instead to lay stretched out on the floor or in her bed all day, except when I mention the word “food”…………or except at night, when she’s constantly waking me up for food. VERY frustrating dealing with a vet (or many) who refuse to listen, who refuse to see that cats need meat rather than corn. Maybe I just won’t answer the phone when the vet calls………..the coward’s way out, but I’m tired of fighting!!!!!!!

        I, too, keep a diary of all I do for Holly—my memory isn’t very good, so I need to write things down to remember what I did and didn’t try.

        And I also lost another cat before I got Holly—she came from the same shelter, and ended up having the same problem with constipation (and was also given the same W/D and R/D diets); it led to megacolon, and after a 16 year battle, I finally had to put her to sleep. The vet didn’t know how else to help her, and I couldn’t stand to watch her puking up her food or receiving enemas every week. I’m afraid Holly is on the same path, so even though I’m dead set against this diet, at the moment (until I can pay off some of my debt), I’ll have to give in and hope Holly lasts long enough for me to get her to a holistic vet.

        After all the posts I’d seen referring people to Vitality Science, I was actually surprised when Stephen told me he didn’t know how to help Holly. But then again, nobody else can either, so maybe I’m not so surprised as disappointed. How did you find out about Moose’s allergy to chicken? Is there some test the vet can do? I fed Holly mostly chicken, but when I was giving her canned food (Hound and Gatos), I was switching between chicken, lamb, and rabbit………..none of them helped her constipation.

        I’m SO GLAD that Moose is getting better with all you are trying. You’re an AWESOME kitty mom!!!!!!!!!! I totally understand how excited you get when things start to go well, but then he takes one or two steps back; I’m glad you are still trying, though, and that his health is improving. And I’m glad you were able to find a vet who was willing to work with you. I, too, have come to the point where I don’t trust vets anymore……….but I have to “play nice”, because I know Holly will eventually need their care again. I hope Moose continues on the road to recovery, and you get your healthy, happy baby back!!!!!!!!! Thank you SO VERY MUCH for your post, and for your support; it helps to know Holly and I are not alone in this battle!!!!!!!!!

        Take care, and have a great weekend.

        Ashley

        • joanne September 28, 2014 at 9:36 am #

          Hi Lisa

          the online vet I use is dr gardner at petsyngery. I found when I lived in texas. when I moved to Utah, she helped me find a vet here who does holistic and western…Dr G is great to deal with. google up petsynergy. You can contact her by email and explain what is going on. She is reasonable too.

          How did I figure out chicken…I had read about other people with the same problems. and I noticed moose was eating and then out if all came at the other end..three cans of dood a day at 2.00 a can.. And yes he was starving. I was thinking when humans get constipated, suffer from ibs and doctors cant figure it out….I learned from a holistic md to drink plenty of water. If the cat wont, one can resort to subq fluids. We have a cat right now we are giving subq to. He has stones and has had surgery. I tried him on another food because he was hating urinary. Well he is back on urinary rx…I don’t like those foods either. and I worry about my cat getting digestive issues too.

          One vet I saw said to add salt to the diet. I would never do this. Holistic med is more about a common sense approach…If there is nothing physically wrong with holly, then it has to be diet. There are different types of raw food. Dr. G put Mario on it. The only reason I took Mario off is because he ate a toy that had the same texture. After ER surgery that was it..now he eats canned natures variety…What do you think about adding more fluid to her …. I don’t know much about mega colon. But for some reason the food isn’t moving through her system. I know that with humans, they can become constipated way at the beginning of the gi tract. we all think its in the bottom part. Could she not be producing enough acid digesting her food.

          Moose did a lot of puking and when I put him on the luxolite, it stopped. I saw products for constipation on Steves site.

          Dr G cured Mario of blood sores from a rabies vacation when I got him. she refused to give up. the local vets wanted to use steroids. I wouldn’t let them. The protein in those sensitive diets I read on a site said they were cheap etc… anyway they didn’t work. Then whiskers got rodent ulcer in texas. The vet down there scared the crap out of me…I let him do one steroid and consulted with dr. G. He was doing better. I took him back to that vet, and they gave him another shot…I didn’t give them permission. Well I walked out and refused to pay. I contacted dr G…She told me what to do…the rodent ulcer had come back again with the allopath and steroids…When dr G started treating whiskers, He got well. I have had several vets ask me what did she do. I said she used holistic and homoepath on him…

          Dr g knows about VS site too.

          I have a copy of Dr Richard pitcarins book in front of me…I am reading about constipation. He starts out about dirty littery box etc. He says animals that don’t get enugh builk in their diet develop this. Treatment feed a natural diet that includes fresh vegetables for adequate bulk. raw meat seems to be a natural laxative for cats. milk sometimes is the same for cats. If the animals stools seem dry add 1/4t to 1 tablesppon of bran to each meal depending on the animals weight. It will help the stools retain additional moisture. A similar treatment is to use 1/4t to 2 teaspoons of powdered psyllium seed from the health store. once a day until a bowel movement occurs. but for no more than a week. Continued use is inadvisable because the oil will draw reserves of vit a from the animals bodys and may also create a dependency on its use for normal evacuation. could use veg oil like olive oil but mineral oil has the advantage of remaining undigested as it passes through while the veg oil is usually absorbed into the body and never makes it to the rectum. Give the animal plenty of opportunity to relieve itself. Make sure the cat has a clean litter box..He says its important that the animal gets plenty of exercise because it massages the internal organs and increases flood blow throughout often stimulating a sluggish metabolism. For cats he says try games involving pouncing such as thin on a stick.

          In his book for chronic constipation he says to avoid using alumiuum cooking pots or dishes. Avoid pet food sold in aluminum cans. Do not feed processed cheese table salft etc.. he has directions to removed aluminum fro the body using vit c. and zinic. Per his page on homeopathic he gives nux vomica and then gives directions on dose etc. He also includes herbal. I got all this information out of his book complete guide to natural health for dogs and cats. Dr Pitcarin is a dvm and a phd… Dr G is wonderful…First I would contact her and then I would get a copy of his book. not all cats are sensitive to alum…

          Nothing else has worked. So let me know….
          Moose had a set back last night, but I have a gut feeling, I maybe overfeeding him…I am going to work on a new plan…
          joanne
          I hope this helps ok…my heart goes out to you and sorry for typos…

          • Ashley September 28, 2014 at 3:53 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Thank you SO VERY MUCH for all the info you gave me!!!!!!!!! And before I forget—don’t ever worry about typos…..I know what you mean!!!!

            Holly has never been a very big water drinker, which is one reason I first switched to canned food. At least then she was getting the moisture from the food, plus I could add extra water (she wouldn’t eat her dry food if I added water, and I read that it’s bad for kitties anyway—can’t remember why). But when the canned food got too expensive, and Holly wasn’t pooping, that’s when I switched to a raw diet, because I heard it was best for ALL health problems..

            After seeing the specialist on Friday, she sent me home with a bag and needles for subq fluids, because I told her that Holly was going to get dehydrated from not drinking enough. However, the specialist doesn’t want me continuing the subq past two weeks………..she wants Holly to drink on her own. Yeah, like that’s gonna happen!!!!!! I warned her………maybe she could pay my vet bill when I prove her wrong!!!!!

            I never thought of Holly not producing enough digestive acid—another question for the vet.

            I don’t blame you one bit for not wanting to give your babies steroids!!!! Even in humans they are VERY hard on the system (I was on steroids for a week and it messed up my stomach AND my brain badly!!!!). From what I’ve read, yeah, most vets haul out the steroids as a first option (or the antibiotics), rather than trying to heal kitties naturally. I’m glad Mario and Whiskers got better without the steroids!!!

            I noticed the supplements for constipation on the Vitality Science site, but when Steve told me he didn’t know how to help Holly, I figured he knew his products best; I was glad he was honest with me, rather than me spending a lot of money only to find out the products didn’t work.

            As for Holly’s litter box: unfortunately (or fortunately!!!!) I have “OCD”, when it comes to Holly………anything she touches, eats off of, or pees/poops in is clean enough for a human to eat from. I use pine pellet litter (all brands of clay litter—including organic—made my asthma worse); the pellets turn to sawdust when peed on, and end up in the bottom of the litter box. I scoop out the sawdust, spray the bottom and sides of the box with vinegar, and wipe with paper towels. It’s not even that I’m rushing her to poop—she just doesn’t bother going to the litter box except to pee.

            I’ve tried pureed pumpkin and sweet potatoes with no luck. Psyllium worked the very first time I gave it to Holly, but that was over a month ago—never really worked after that. I’ve tried yogurt, milk and even canola oil and unsalted butter. She’s also still on the Restoralax (a human laxative that adds water to the stool to make it soft); Holly DOES have soft stools………..when they finally come out!!! It’s more like her muscles don’t work properly to push the poop out……….even with medication to MAKE her colon contract more. Frustrating!!!!!

            The one thing you mention that Holly IS lacking, is exercise. I’ve gotten her all the cutest/smallest/softest toys I could find, even including a long piece of felt on a stick………..she watches me while I play with them!!!!!!!!! She’s the only cat I know to NOT like catnip. I’ve made her lots of “puzzle” toys (boxes with holes cut in them, and she’d have to try to get the toys out)………instead of playing, she chewed the edge of the box!!!!!!! When she was on the raw diet, she WAS playing—for about fifteen minutes after each of her four feedings; the rest of the time she slept. On the dry diets she also always sleeps, and no amount of coaxing gets her moving. I even tried taking her out on my balcony (with her harness and leash on), but she was so scared she had her arms/paws wrapped around my neck…….so we came back in. Tried taking her in the stairwell next to my apartment………she sat on the step and looked at me. I’ve got a VERY stubborn little girl (DEFINITELY female!!!!!!!!).

            I feel bad that I keep telling you “it didn’t work” after trying so hard to help me (my vet actually got mad at me because everything she suggested I told her I’d tried it and it didn’t work)…………I WILL try to contact Dr. Gardner. I know there has to be SOME reason for Holly not pooping………I think the Internal Medicine vet gave up too easily.

            I’m SO SORRY Moose had a setback. In your diary, do you record how much you feed him? What I started doing with Holly was weighing her food; sometimes when using a measuring cup you add a little more or less than the previous days……..if the food is weighed, it’s exactly the same each day. Also, I started writing down the calories beside each meal…….so that I can make sure she’s getting the same amount each day (so that if I need to make adjustments, I know where I went wrong). I hope your baby starts feeling better soon!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much for all the information you gave me. I’ll go look up Dr. Gardner as soon as I finish here. And I’ll see if I can get that book from our library.

            I hope you and Moose have a great week. Take care.

            Ruth

          • joanne September 28, 2014 at 6:05 pm #

            Hi Ashley
            Moose really slid back. two attacks. so I have been giving him his suppls plus one ounce a food every hour or two. He isn’t eating so well either. I just hope I don’t have to hear those awful words…. When moose started out he weighed 18 pounds. Now he is around 9.10 oz

            I wanted to tell you this…dr g is wonderful. when I started with her, I knew nothing. I told her I had ADD and she really understood..She laid things out for me. If you do a consult with her, you can buy the products at health food stores or stores like sprouts or whole foods etc. When you contact her, she will explain how she does things, but for sure get all hollys records together for her. the more you can give her, the better. And yes I do keep logs. I send them after a few days to dr g and steve.

            My vet here always says when it comes to holistic and homopeath Dr G is in charge. There are many homoepath remedies that dr Pitcarin suggest in his book. Dr G knows who Dr Pitcarin is… I remember being so scared at first. Like this was unchartered for me. The vet in texas wasn’t happy that I had enlisted a holistic vet. They think they just know so much. Sure, they do???????

            By the time I enlisted her, I had lost three cats to kidney disease. I was hurt and down. The first was oct 2007 and the other two jan 2008. Lily got sick with diarr and dr g had her on lots of things. One time she even rallied and got well. The vets I went to wouldn’t look at anything else except what they knew and they refused to listen to anything else. In the end, lily died. She weighed three pounds. So believe me I do understand…Before I met dr g I didn’t know good food from other food. I did vaccines etc…I have read that many of the things I did as a result of doing what the vets said may have caused her illness. Now, we don’t much of anything…but I have a good vet here.

            If anybody knows how to help you, dr g will do her best. And if you don’t understand something, remember to ask…Its important that you know too. Steve at vs said it may take moose 30 days to stabilize. One thing, I think is that maybe I am overfeeding him… So, I have decided to do things differently and see what happens.

            At least you have done all those tests. And for sure that is going to be a big help. I just think there is more that help Holly. I am not giving up on moose just yet. before he got sick with the diarr disease, he got pancreatitis. That was horrible and I had many trips to the vet. I did pumpkin and it made things worse..then I found out it can go either way help diarr or make it worse. When dr g suggests things, ask her if the product comes in a little blue tube…that is a borion (spelling) product. They also make a product for acid reflux. These are human products, but my vet here also uses them too.

            I have seven cats with seven problems…right now, I am dealing with urinary and ibd ….my one kitty had the surgery for crystals. I took him to the vet for a ua…He is full of stones…but, they are passing through because the surgery gave him a bigger hole… he is getting subq fluids too.

            So lets both keep our fingers crossed and hope for positive changes. I just don’t hold a lot of stock in western medicine for many things…And I have seen my kitties cured doing what dr g has told me…maybe not everything….

            let me know ok…You can tell dr g I told you about her…just tell her moose…
            joanne

          • Ashley September 28, 2014 at 6:57 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I’m SOOOOOO SORRY Moose is in such bad shape!!! Give him a hug for me!!!! And I can’t believe you’ve got seven cats with different problems—yikes, how do you keep them all straight?!?!?! I have enough trouble just taking care of ONE kitty at a time!!!!! I’m SOOOOOOOOOOOOO SORRY you lost three kitties to kidney disease; that would have made me not want to adopt any more cats—too much pain, especially all at once. Your kitties sure have an AWESOME mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            (By the way, I’m posting my reply after this email because your last email didn’t have the “reply” button at the bottom—not sure why, this is the first time I’ve ever done something like this, so I’m still finding my way around).

            I don’t have ADD, but because of all the meds I’m on for depression, anxiety, and arthritis, my brain is often foggy. That’s why I make sure to write everything I do for Holly in her diary—so I don’t forget what happened.

            I actually sent Dr. Gardner an email as soon as I posted my last comment. I told her I couldn’t afford her fees at the moment, but asked if she’d tell me whether or not she could help Holly anyway—and if yes, I’d get back to her in a couple of weeks, when I’ve made another Visa payment. I didn’t mention your name, just that I got her name from one of her clients.

            I laughed when you said your vet in Texas wasn’t happy you enlisted a holistic vet—yup, totally understand!!!!!!!!!!! My vet was totally ticked off when I switched Holly to a raw food diet!!!!!!!! Her exact statement to me: “it’s time to stop feeding her diets recommended on websites and pet stores and feed her a diet that is backed by research and works for the majority of cats with chronic constipation”………..she forgot to finish: “and causes weight gain, flaky skin, dry fur, starvation, and an unhappy kitty”!!!!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! Maybe she was mad because she wasn’t getting the kickbacks from Royal Canin!!!!!! I’m glad you stood your ground and did what you thought was best for your kitties. As I said in my last email to the specialist who did Holly’s testing on Friday, you guys only see Holly for one appointment; I live with Holly every single day, and can see what the prescription diet is doing to her health!!!!!!!!!!!! Should be an interesting response this week!!!!!!! Even if it takes the rest of my life to pay off my debt, I’m still going to do my very best for Holly; if that means finding a vet who knows what to do (and who won’t automatically dish out dry prescription food), so be it. I DID trust Holly’s current vet………..until she told me to stop feeding Holly diets recommended on websites; like I’m actually TRYING to “poison” my baby?!?!?!!? I even told her that the AAFCO admitted to allowing euthanized pets into the commercial pet foods…………she looked at me like I had two heads. Funny–ALL the vet staff have their pets on prescription food; poor babies!!!!!!!!!!!

            I’ve never had to deal with a kitty who had pancreatitis, but a friend’s cat was just diagnosed with it; he’s not doing so well, and Heather is afraid she’s going to lose him. He’s 18 years old, but still her baby (she has four cats). I understand that fear quite well; I still wake up in fear every morning, not knowing what kind of day Holly is going to have. But hopefully that will soon change………….with the help of Dr. Gardner. I’ll let you know when I hear back from her. Until then, THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH for all your support!!!!!!!!!!! You’re the first person I’ve “talked” to since Friday (except for Holly!!!!); it feels good to finally have someone who understands!!!!!!!!!!

            Take care, and have a great week!!!!!!!!!!

            Ruth
            (I used “Ashley” at first because I didn’t know how this website worked, and I was a little nervous—like I said, I’ve never done something like this before).

          • joanne September 28, 2014 at 8:31 pm #

            Hi Ruth…I am replying from your email that you sent. I cant find all of our posts and I don’t see reply buttons on them either. I just continue to check notify me of new emails.

            Its ok to use my name with Dr. G. I would just explain to her that you do plan to use her and can pay her when you make the payment etc…I have been with her for four years.

            You will learn a lot from her, but her kindness is real and genuine. Thanks for the nice words. I have always had lots of cats, but honestly I never have had so many problems at one time except once in texas with three cats sick. What a zoo.

            When I got ceasar and calliope from a shelter, I didn’t realize how sick they were. Frist I got calliope. I took her to doc my vet here. She was near death with some herpes type virus. Doc has me write to dr g and ask her a remedy for it. She wrote everything down for me. Dco said dr g will know. Then we went back and got her brother who was sick, but not like her. Both were five month old kittens. They were dropped off…The virus they had was bad and could be transmitted. I had to keep separate clothes etc for their area and the other kitties. I had to wash my hands.. it was awful. even had to have separate shoes too They did get well. When I got ozzie, from a rescue, he was abused and the woman even admitted to her him. He was 9months old. He got tired of her hitting him and he bit her. I came along and took him before she changed her mind and put him down. He has turned into a sweet kitty. He lives with dolly. I got her from a rescue in Arkansas and became very good friends with the kind lady who runs it. Whiskers came to me from georiga..The woman how had him, brought him to me cause she had a meeting in ft worth. then Mario, came to me from florida. And dear sweet moose, I found sitting in cage at petco in texas. I knew he needed me. I lost Charlie right after lily to asthma…that really broke my heart esp because he got fatty liver and we got him through it.

            So as you can see, I have learned a lot.. Ozzie ended up with a mucus plug and we had to deal with that. We had moved and I found a vet open on sat…should never have used them. should have gone to the er which at that time of day would have been regular hours. That vet tripled charged us. They did save ozzie, but this kind of crap has happened to many times to us.

            You wouldn’t believe all the different kinds of wet food I buy. I am in the process of switching my kitties off royal canin ur to wellness indoor grain free core except for whiskers… I have been through er surgery with Mario…Been through the surgery with whiskers to remake his urinary track.. So now, he pees like a female.

            I got very sick in texas when we were trying to sell our house in the downturn cause my hubbie had relocated…Lost 40 punds in a month and survived. I couldn’t take care of my kitties. My friend in Arkansas took ozzie and dolly and gave them back to me. My other friend took my toots….they fell in love with her and begged to keep her. I agreed because after lily and Charlie died, she was miserable and didn’t like the other kitties. I still keep in touch. She loves being with them.

            So when we moved, we took three with us and then my friend in Arkansas knew people who are travelling and accompany kitties home….They go under the seats not in cargo.

            So now you know how I ended up with my seven kidlets. There are days, I am just so tired out, but when I see them happy and purring, its worth it. My husband helps me out a lot. But I do all the feeding etc…They all live in different areas and are paired off except for moose who lives by himself…the stress of other animals is just too much.

            Tell your friend whos cat has pancreatitis, that steve does have suppls for that. I know because I talked to him about it for moose. Also, have you considered a good probiotic for Holly. It couldn’t hurt either. I know that Dr. G refered me to a site called feline instincts. They have some wonderful products….I also know that Dr G believes in raw diets too. The vet in texas really tried to discourage raw food. I got mad and told them, my holistic vet suggested it…and I said you got a problem with that too. for now, whiskers has to be on s/d diet. nothing I can do about that. Doc put him on some other things. Dr G has been out of town, so I wrote her to let her know…She will determine what whiskers will be on… I am very lucky that my vet here and Dr G work so well together…

            So I hope that you can get holly started with dr. g. It will probably be much more affordable than the vets you have now.

            Joanne

          • Ashley September 28, 2014 at 9:07 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Holy smokes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How did your heart survive all those kitty illnesses?!?!?!??!?!? I’m at the end of my rope just dealing with Holly’s problems!!!!!!!!! You are right, though—when I see Holly happy and purring, I know it’s worth it. It’s just getting to those happy moments that is hard sometimes!!!!!!!!! I’m SO GLAD you found Dr. G!!!!!!!!!!!

            I’m actually surprised the shelter would let your kitties be adopted when they were so sick—the ones around here won’t let them go until they have a clean bill of health (or so they say………..Holly’s problems started a few days after I adopted her, so I guess they cross their fingers when the kitties go!!!!!!! I actually wrote to the shelter AND the City of Toronto to complain about all of Holly’s vet bills a week after adoption—they repaid me most of the bills for that week; hmmm…..maybe I should contact them again!!!!!!!!)

            I’m GLAD Ozzie bit his previous “torturer”!!!!!!!!!! Good for him!!!!!!!!!!!! And good for you for getting him away from the abuse!!!!!!!!!

            You are SOOOOOOOOOOOO lucky to have such good friends to take care of your babies when you were sick!!!!!!! Gee, I have a hard enough time just losing FIVE pounds……….don’t know how you survived losing 40!!!!!!!!!! But I’m glad you did………or I wouldn’t have gotten so much good information tonight!!!!!!!! I hope your health is better now.

            I’ll tell Heather about Steve’s website. I have had Holly on probiotics in the past, but I didn’t think it did much good. There are so many different brands and sales staff trying to sell their products, that I never know what to buy. I’ve often taken their advice in the past, only to find out they didn’t know what they were talking about!!!!!!!!!!!

            I don’t know how you manage with all the different foods for different kitties!!!!!!! For me, I have to have Holly’s diet (how much food, which food, which medicines) written down on the kitchen cabinet where I get her meals ready—otherwise I have no idea what I’m doing!!!!!!!!!!

            You’re right—you ARE lucky your vet and Dr. G work so well together!!!!!!!! I can’t see that happening here, so I probably won’t tell Holly’s vet what I’m doing (until she’s cured—THEN I’ll show them the proof!!!!!!!!!). You would think that the vets would forget their differences, and work to make the ANIMALS better—not fight over whose treatments are good or bad!!!!!!!!!!!! Then again, it works that way in the human world, too; naturopaths don’t usually get along with regular doctors. I tried taking some natural health food supplements a few years ago—my GP blamed all my illnesses on the “quack therapies”………….and yet all the prescription meds that she prescribes have given me lots more side effects!!!!!!!! Now I don’t bother telling her what I take……….much easier to deal with!!!!!!!!!

            I’m not sure what time zone you are in, but here in Toronto it’s midnight……….and time for me to hit the hay. I’m SO GLAD I got a chance to talk to you, Joanne!!!!!!!!! I’ll let you know what Dr. G says. Take care, and have a great night.

            Ruth

          • Ashley September 29, 2014 at 4:55 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I just wanted to give you a quick update. I got an email back from Dr. G today. She thought I should continue with the raw food, but at the moment Holly isn’t pooping, and I’m afraid I’m going to have to go completely back to the prescription diet for now. I can’t afford another vet visit to have Holly cleaned out. She also advised me to continue with the pumpkin and psyllium, and eventually get her onto some probiotics and enzymes, and hopefully some homeopathic remedies. I let her know that I would, it would just take a couple of weeks because I can’t afford it right now. She also suggested using Feline Instincts premix for Holly’s raw diet, but I”m not sure it will work—Holly refuses to eat salmon or anything with salmon oil in it. Plus I’ve still got half a package of the supplement I’ve been using from British Columbia; it was too expensive for me to just throw it out……….like I’ve done with lots of other cat foods!!!!! I’ve got a VERY picky girl on my hands!!!!!!!

            I hope you and all your babies are doing well!!!!!!!! Is Moose doing any better today??? I hope so!!!!!!!!

            Just to let you know, I won’t be near my computer most of tomorrow, so please don’t think I’m ignoring you. I’ve got my own digestive issues, and have to get some tests done tomorrow………I definitely know how Holly feels!!!!!!!

            I hope you have a good night, Joanne. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne September 29, 2014 at 7:50 pm #

            Hi ruth

            I have been gone most of today. I know how hard all of this is. You should let dr g know that you have products left over. We figured out something. I was overfeeding moose and that is why all the diarr kept coming back. he has had two bms and they are well formed.

            I know you have tried many things, but I do know that feline instinct company has some great products. I also know that dr wouldn’t recommend things that didn’t work. It all takes time and switching diets doesn’t help… There are a number of homeopath that she will recommend. And it going to take time for hollys system to get use to all the things going in. There have been times I have had to make my kitties eat. That isn’t pleasant either. You may have to take her for an enema…get her cleaned out and then do what dr g says.. Just keep doing it..also I would feed really small amounts over a period of time and let the bowel rest in between. I would ask dr g if holly is getting plugged at the top of the gi tract. Constipation can happen anywhere in the tract.

            Speaking about digestive issues, I know too first hand. I have had a ton of them. But after I started with the holistic md so many of my problems went away… Its not fun either…but diet plays a big role. I eat very little surgar or carbs. I try to eat lots of veggies and fruit. I don’t handle dairy. I don’t drink soy because its not fermented…(soy Milk) I don’t eat a lot of beef either. I just try to eat things that I should have been doing years earlier. And no soda pop. Its really bad.

            Lets get you and holly back on tract. let me know how your tests turn out. Curing your kittiy is going to be a slow process and wont happen overnight. Trust me…what I have been through with moose has been going on for over a year and that doesn’t even include the pancreatitis. Let Dr G know what suppls you have left over and ask her if you can use them.

            She is a very kind person…Her prices are really reasonable. I have seen holistic vets online charge over 100 bucks for just one hour. You can ask dr g if you can do email consults too. I did tell her I was the one who referred you. It took her 10 months to cure Mario. He was so sick from rabies vaccination. I figured out some of it and then let her know what had happened. I had to be her eyes and ears. And I know you can do that too. But remember, her system is probably overloaded from all the crap from those allopath vets. Her system is going to take time to recharge and get started working again. And with holistic, it just takes time. With moose its been over two weeks and me finally figuring out that I was giving him to much food at a time. Maybe hollys system can only handle small amounts of food. If she is constipated from the top her stomach is probably bloated. And then she doesn’t want to eat. It might not be that she is picky etc, but that she really doesn’t feel good. That is why I am thinking if you can get that vet to just do an enema and then start with tiny amounts of food and frequent feedings. Figure out how much she needs based on her weight and then go from there. That way with tiny amounts, you are giving her system a rest too and it will be easier for food to pass through along with all the suppls. I take a small amount of food and lace it with suppls. I count how much I give..I measure it with my food scale. You know from all the vaccines holly got when adopted, they could have really done a number on hier gi tract. So the probitiocs would really benefit her…They do take time. And the enzyme would help her digest food. I have moose on digestive enzymes too. Dr. G is familiar with the VS site. the feline instinct if really a product. When I had Mario on the raw rabbit, I suppls his diet with extra taurine. He had a heart murmur. I have had several vets who examined from before examine him again. its gone.

            In the end, as you start over, I bet it will be cheaper than what is going on now…But getting her gi tract jump started is what is needed now. And with all the crap the other vet has done, how can the suppls work…. Ask dr g about vaccines. You know my holistic md told me that skin problems can be a direct result of gut problems.

            Let me know
            PS Here is my email address that way you can start communicating with me directly.

          • Ashley September 29, 2014 at 8:42 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I’m SOOOOOOOOOO GLAD Moose is on the road to recovery!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Yes, I understand completely that Holly’s recovery will take time (but I’ve got no patience!!!!!). I lost that a long time ago!!!!!!!

            I had to make Holly eat a couple of times; talk about nightmare!!!!!!!! But I don’t blame her; I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t like being force-fed either!!!!!!! I don’t know if it’s coincidence or chance, but Holly is my second cat with digestive issues, and I’ve got them as well; like mother like daughters!!!!!!!! Makes me wonder if there’s something in my apartment that’s making her (and me) sick. I AM surrounded by smokers (my landlord doesn’t care that the smoke is making me sick), and have to keep closing my windows when people smoke on their balconies. I told my landlord in an email this weekend that if I get cancer, I’m suing the smokers!!! It makes me wonder, though, if this is affecting Holly’s health, too.

            I did ask Dr. G if the TC Feline pre-mix I bought from BC for Holly’s raw diet wasn’t any good; she told me Feline Instincts was a better product. I told her I wasn’t even sure Holly would accept it, since I had to put salmon oil in the food—Holly refuses to touch salmon or salmon oil.

            You’re smart about your own diet!!! I don’t drink pop, but I can’t live without my sugar!!! I’m better than I used to be because of my limited budget (can’t even afford chocolate bars these days, which I guess is a good thing!!!). And I have a hard time buying produce—most of it is too expensive for my budget, unless it’s on sale. I used to eat lots of fruits and veggies, but this past year especially, the prices have skyrocketed. All my money goes into feeding Holly and paying vet bills!!!!!! She eats better than me (well, until I put her back on the prescription crap). Also, a lot of foods irritate my colon, so I have to stay away from them or pay the consequences.

            Did Dr. G ever see any of your kitties in person? I’m wondering how she could prescribe meds without examining them; most doctors and vets won’t do that.

            Holly does get small meals, four times a day. If it were her choice it would be every hour, but that’s not going to happen!!! I used to free-feed her when I first adopted her; then her first vet suggested several small meals throughout the day, since she was gaining so much weight. So now I feed her every 8 hours (approximately), and I weigh her food to make sure I’m not overfeeding. And it’s funny, I swear she can tell time!!!!!!!! One of her feedings is actually at 4:00AM………….and give or take 15 minutes, she wakes me up to feed her, right on time!!!!!!! I tried putting her food in a pet feeder a long time ago; she ended up banging her head against the feeder until the dishes opened up………..and I was afraid the noise was going to wake my neighbours, so I just let her wake me up now.

            Yes, I’ve heard that G.I. problems can cause skin problems…….I’ve been told the gut has an effect on most body parts/systems. Makes sense—if you can’t digest or absorb the nutrients properly, your whole body can get messed up.

            I will ask Dr. G about the supplements and the vaccines; it’s going to take some time for me to come up with the money, though. I told her I’d get back to her when I paid off some of my Visa. I feel bad taking up her time with emails and not paying right away.

            Your email address didn’t show up at the end of your email, so that’s why I’m posting this on the blog again. Maybe it doesn’t allow email addresses to be shown???

            I hope you and your kitties have a good day tomorrow. I’ll let you know how my tests go……..but it might not be until Wednesday. I have a feeling tomorrow is going to be a long day!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne September 29, 2014 at 10:38 pm #

            Hi ruth…Just was on way to bed and turning off computer.

            I will write again and try and include my email on the next post ok..

            Dr. G. doesn’t prescribe rx drugs. Her work is with suppls. She will let me know to ask doc here about something.. If you read her site, and if I remember correctly she has an offline practice.

            One thing I have learned is patients. I just want things to happen, but they don’t. I take suppls and they take time to kick in. When it comes to digestive issues, I feel like I could write short story about all the things I had…Notice had…My holistic med cured so many of my problems I do feel better.

            I cant believe I have been overfeeding moose. I had always been so careful. When he got sick, tho, he was eating and having diarr as fast as it went in it seemed to come out. So I got use to giving him so much food. It would be nice if cats came with instructions.

            Look on the cans of rx diets and see what ingredients are in the food. Look for grain, by products other proteins etc…
            I bookmarked this link and it really opened my eyes. http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_pet_food_ingredients_0.html
            Look at whats in raw or a limited diet.. Maybe holly gut cant handle certain ingredients …I read that cats should never eat grain because they are meat eaters and that is why they have higher protein needs.

            I hope this helps …will try and retype email in on next blog to you.
            joanne

          • Ashley September 30, 2014 at 5:34 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            Just a quick email before I head out today. Thank you SO VERY MUCH for that list of pet food ingredients. I knew the prescription crap was CRAP………..but didn’t know it was quite THAT bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I copied some of the main ingredients into an email, adding the “Wikipedia” definition for them (for proof that I wasn’t making it up)………..and sent the email to my vet!!!!!!!!!!!! Told her No wonder Holly’s starving!!!!!!!!!!

            By the way, Holly FINALLY pooped this morning—at 12:30AM!!!!!!!!!! She definitely looks more comfortable today.

            I’ve been telling my vet (and also told the specialist) that Holly needs MEAT in her diet, not “cereal”………both looked at me like I had two heads…………probably thinking “I’m the one with the vet degree, don’t tell me you think you know more than I do!!!!!!!!!”. There isn’t ANY meat in this prescription—unless you count “chicken fat”!!!!!!!!!!!! Just made up my mind this morning after reading all that, I’m NOT going to fully transition Holly to the prescription stuff; I’ll leave the diet half raw food, so at least she’s getting some nutrition.

            I laughed when you said you wished cats came with instructions………………..A Guide Book for Dummies would work for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If only they could TALK!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope Moose is feeling better, now that you’ve got the right food amount. Sometimes when I feed Holly, especially if she’s having trouble pooping, I’ll give her extra food to try to push the poop out. That’s what I did yesterday (with the prescription food, since that’s what it’s meant to do). Granted, she gained another 7 grams (that’s a lot in cat weight), but at least I don’t have to take her for another enema…………yet.

            Anyway, I hope you and your kitties have a good day today. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne September 30, 2014 at 10:42 am #

            That is good news about holly. I read that cats have a short digestive tract not like humans and food passes through faster on them. Let Dr G know what you did to get holly to go. I honestly believe with the kind of food a cat is supposed to eat and the suppls she suggests holly will rebound. It just take time and patients…

            Moose is recovering…this is day two NO DIRRHEA….I talked to steve at vs and we are going to keep moose on the dosage until oct 10… Then I will contact him and see what he wants to do. Also Dr. G had me order the uro cleanse for whiskers. After his next recheck I will let her know and she will decide his course too. I am very lucky because I have a vet here who does believe in holistic and also practices western..She is not closed minded. She and Dr G work together and its great.

            I know about closed minded vets cause I experienced that in Texas and one of them was mad because I contacted Dr. G and didn’t ask them first. Well, I didn’t care…All I know is this, they helped destroy one of my cats that I had to put down. And their big drugs and approach to many things didn’t work.

            And you know its just like that with humans too. I had a primary care dr who tried to bully me into taking crap. I went to the holistic md and he said no…And its interesting, when I went back to the primary care doctor who ran tests. My bone scan increased 10x… the primary care dr couldn’t figure out why…So that was it for me…my holistic md became my primary care dr. Its not about drugs…its about treating the body with what it needs…instead of one drug after another…and lets not forget the side effects too.

            I hope I can get whiskers off s/d….

          • Ashley September 30, 2014 at 8:58 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I’m SOOOOOOOO GLAD that Moose is getting better!!!!!!!!! Holly had diarrhea for awhile after her first hospital stay (they gave her mega doses of laxatives); I was glad when hers got better, too!!!!!!!! Does Moose always make it to the litter box??? That was the problem Holly had—she ended up going everywhere…….on a hard floor I wouldn’t have worried so much, but it’s hard to get diarrhea out of carpet (my apartment is wall-to-wall carpeting, and I was afraid the landlord was going to have my head). Plus she had such a sore bum!!!!!! I don’t know if Moose has that problem, but what I found helps is baby diaper rash cream—just put it on with a q-tip—not too much, though, ’cause it’s hard to get off furniture/carpet/clothing.

            I don’t blame you for wanting Whiskers off the S/D; after reading the info you gave me this morning on what’s really in our pet food, I’m angry that the companies are making so much money off of what’s supposed to be “diets backed by research and science”. I found this online tonight when I was trying to find out how long their research studies on the food lasted………

            http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?p=359&more=1

            ——Pet Food Standards and Regulations
            The National Research Council (NRC) of the Academy of Sciences set the nutritional standards for pet food that were used by the pet food industry until the late 1980s. The original NRC standards were based on purified diets, and required feeding trials for pet foods claimed to be “complete” and “balanced.” The pet food industry found the feeding trials too restrictive and expensive, so AAFCO designed an alternate procedure for claiming the nutritional adequacy of pet food, by testing the food for compliance with “Nutrient Profiles.” AAFCO also created “expert committees” for canine and feline nutrition, which developed separate canine and feline standards.

            While feeding trials are sometimes still done, they are expensive and time-consuming. A standard chemical analysis may also be used to make sure that a food meets the profiles. In either case, there will be a statement on the label stating which method was used. However, because of the “family rule” in the AAFCO book, a label can say that feeding tests were done if it is “similar” to a food that was actually tested on live animals. There is no way to distinguish the lead product from its “family members.” ————————-

            And they call these diets “backed by science”???? In whose mind??? How do they know the diets aren’t going to make pets sick?!?!?!?

            You should be able to get Whiskers off the S/D food—from what I remember about Holly’s S/O diet (similar to Hill’s but from Royal Canin), kitties were only supposed to eat the food until the stones were dissolved, usually for about 4-6 weeks; it’s not a complete enough diet for long-term feeding. Then again, as far as I’m concerned, none of the prescription foods are. Talk to Dr. G and Steve; maybe they’ve got something better suited for Whiskers.

            I agree with you that holistic vets and doctors would be better for pets and humans; I just wish I could afford all of that. I’ve bought supplements from the health food store over the years, but I can’t afford to do it long term.

            I survived the tests at the hospital today…….and after all of that they didn’t even find anything!!! They took biopsies of the parts of my stomach and colon I had pain in, but there was no bleeding or anything else they could see at the time. I’m grateful for that–but at the same time, it just means they have to look elsewhere for the cause of my iron level dropping so fast and so low. I had the same problem five years ago………..and THAT doctor made me feel like my problems were all in my head!!!! I’ve gotten that most of my life, so I’m used to it……but it makes me angry when doctors don’t take me seriously!!!!!!! Oh well…………guess I’ll have to wait for the biopsy results………I know, PATIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I’m still waiting for the urinalysis to come back for Holly; tomorrow is day 5 after the test, so hopefully they will be able to tell me something. I know there’s SOMETHING wrong, ’cause her fur on her back end is often wet and stinks like pee. Had to give her a bum bath tonight because it smelled so bad (she’s gotten to the point where she just stands in the bathtub and lets me wash her off—the first time I gave her a bath she tried to claw her way up my t-shirt and neck!!). She’s been through too much!!!!!!!!

            Well, it’s time for me to get to bed. I just wanted to let you know I’m okay after today, and congratulate Moose on a good 2 days without diarrhea!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 1, 2014 at 12:20 pm #

            hi Ruth
            sorry it took me a while to get back to you. So now we both understand how important healthy food is to both of us. You know I see people shopping and they put soda pop and chips ice cream etc in the cart. They add in processed bread and meat and cheese. Don’t bother to look at labels to see if gmo or not. These foods are expensive and they are probably designed to make us and our animals sick. Then we are supposed to take their drugs that have horrible side effects

            I saw my holistic md today. And he added a couple of things in. I see how far I have come and gotten off of most rx/s that I don’t need. And its the same with the cats. On one of mooses suppls its, luxolite a bentonie clay…Pardon spelling here… My holistic md sure knew about that and said its good..So here is my cat taking it too.

            The best way to eat is no gmo foods and read the labels…No bad carbs and no processed sugar or food. Just basic eating. I don’t eat a lot of meat …maybe once or twice a week. I eat a lot of beans because they are protein and fiber. Just try to keep things simple. My hubbie likes to cook and also sees holistic md.

            Moose cat puked before I got up…I let doc know here and I wrote dr. G. I am thinking maybe its because he gets so hungry etc…she said it would be ok to increase one oz. And yes moose use to go outside of his box and I had to clean the piles of darr up. This is the first time he has puked since going on the products. He is starting to look so much better. And I hope when he goes in next week, he has gained more than just a few ozs… I would like to see a pound, but anything really is better than loosing..

            I also have poor whiskers to deal with now too. He will be going for another ua..then he will go on the uro cleanse from vitality. Dr G will work with me per the dosing instructions.

            I was thinking if holly is starting to go on raw and mixed, I wonder if its because of the raw and would wonder about increasing it. This is kind of like rocket science because there are times one can still feel so alone even tho, there are others helping out. When I had my other kitties on the urinary so wet, two of them got darr and anal gland problems. I took them off and took both of them into the vet. Now, they are both getting wet rabbit by instinct. There are no problems. Doc here thought it was the grain. I have also read that vaccines for humans and animals is nothing more than a con. And most of them do more harm than good. If Mario ever got another vaccine, it would kill him.

            I hope you can just use dr G…I am sure it would be cheaper and you will see results. I am learning about patients and when we have set backs, I have learned its part of getting them stabilized. I was looking over a list of things to do to make my immune system stronger. the holistic md gave it to me…I do many things on that list. But, you know, when it comes to our kidlets, how many of us realize we might be tearing their systems down. I question what so many vets are thinking etc…I wonder why people aren’t questioning them. I also read about who sponsors and gives money to vet schools etc. Probably last think they would want is to provide classes on proper nutrition…. And you know, when Mario had all those problems, the first thing the vet did was put him some stupid sensitive diet. He ate it and it did nothing. When I started with Dr. G. things changed very fast. He started eating better. And when you talk about vets getting mad when you question them. well these guys were not happy that I decided to contact Dr G. I refused to go along with all their suggestions esp the steroids for him. They were shocked that she cured him. And then they told me how wrong she was for putting him on raw and how bad it was…Well that is when I gave them the article that I sent you and said. perhaps you disagree because you would poison the animls with garbage and mess up their digestive tracts etc. One of them told me I would never be able to cure the rodent ulcer and I needed steroids to control it…Well when Dr g took over, it went away. Nothing more was ever said again.

            there are reasons when our cats digestive tracts go haywire. I am just so tired of arguing with people about the crap they feed and how they treat them…. I am really tired of dealing with vets who refuse to even consider a different approach. I read an article awhile back how our ancestors knew how to cure so many things…Somewhere along the way, we have had all those things taken away from us.

            I hope you are feeling better.

          • Ashley October 1, 2014 at 2:32 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            You sure cheered me up today!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is SOOOOOOOOOOOO NICE to finally have someone who thinks the same way I do about prescription diets and meds for my kitty, someone who also questions what the vets are doing and why they are doing them. I’ve also read that the only nutrition vets get are from the major prescription diet companies (like Hill’s and Royal Canin). I actually wrote a VERY NASTY email to Royal Canin after Holly was started on the S/O diet, and ended up in the hospital with SEVERE constipation. I asked them why they didn’t inform the vets that the S/O diet is NOT an option for cats with severe constipation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was told “we’ve never had that kind of complaint before”………….and yet there were HUNDREDS of complaints like mine on the Internet. It’s all money to them, and they don’t care who they hurt, as long as they get to the top of ladder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Makes me sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            At the moment, unfortunately, I can’t switch Holly back to COMPLETELY raw food; for whatever reason, her constipation is only responding to the prescription diet right now. I’m keeping the raw diet in the mix, though, so she at least gets SOME healthy food into her. I never did hear back from the vet or specialist when I emailed them the list of ingredients in Holly’s food, complete with detailed definitions. Hmmmmmmm………….might have struck a nerve!!!!!!!!!!!! I’ll keep working with them, but on MY terms. I’m still fighting for my baby, and so far they haven’t (completely) broken me.

            As for the vaccines, Holly got her Rabies shot a few weeks ago, but after what Steve told me, I’m not letting her get any more vaccines, no matter HOW hard the vet tries to twist my arm. She’s an indoor cat, I never have any visitors, the only place she sees anyone else is at the vet’s office and she’s in a carrier while in the main waiting room. The closest she gets to another animal is looking out the window at the pigeons on my balcony railing!!!!!! I was actually vaccinated against Hepatitis B when I was in college in 1993—we had to have it in order to do our work placements, volunteering in group homes for kids with disabilities. That vaccine made me SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SICK, and the doctors never could figure out why, even after contacting the manufacturer. I lost 30 pounds, was down to 99 pounds when I finally dropped out of college—I was too weak to lift a fork to feed myself, let alone go to classes and study. It took me three years to finally get back to feeling like a semi-normal person. After that, I’ve refused to have any more shots—no boosters, flu shots, or pneumonia shots, even though the doc says I need them because my immune system is lowered. I figured if I don’t go near anyone, then how am I going to get sick?!?!?!? If I feel a cold coming on, or I’m around anyone who’s been sick, I take some Oil of Oregano when I get home. Haven’t gotten sick in the last year since I started taking it. And I haven’t had the flu since I was in grade 5—-32 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So the docs can keep their drugs for someone more gullible!!!!!!!!!!! I have also seen for myself that the vaccine never protects people, so why bother filling my body with crap that can only make me sicker in the end?!?!?! And now that I’ve clued in to vet schemes, Holly won’t be getting any more, either. The thing about vaccines is, once it’s in your body, you can’t get it out again; where if you take prescription pills, at least you can stop taking them if they make you sick.

            I’m glad Moose is getting better (but I’m sorry he puked). I hate when that happens, too—-I’ve watched Holly (and Ashley) puke too many times, and it looks like their stomachs are going to come out through their mouths!!!!!!!!!! If I’m there to witness the attacks, I always put my hand on Holly’s back and talk quietly to her, telling her she’s gonna be okay, until she’s done throwing up. Our poor babies!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope Moose gains some weight, too. What I finally did for Holly was order a baby scale, so that I could weigh her every day at home, rather than have to wait for a surprise at the vet’s office. Now I’m not so stressed about her gaining/losing weight…………I just adjust the food each day according to the scale. I learned my lesson after the vet tech got mad that Holly wasn’t losing weight fast enough, even though we had decreased the calories (this was before I started canned/raw diets).

            I hope Whiskers ua comes back okay; I always find it so hard to let them take Holly away for those tests. She gets back at them, though—she always poops in their office before leaving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’ve learned to put pee pads on top of her bed in the carrier, just in case!!!!!!!!! By the way, if you ever need pee pads, the HUMAN disposable pads at the drug store are much cheaper—-and do the same thing. I also use a baby’s change pad I got from Walmart (pkg of 2 for $12), and put that between the blanket and bed in Holly’s carrier…….just for extra protection.

            I don’t eat beef or pork either (I can’t digest them properly); I used to eat chicken and fish a few times a week, but now it’s more like once every 2 weeks. Once I pay for all of Holly’s food and supplements, I don’t have a lot left over for myself. But that’s okay………..I’m getting by. Unfortunately that means eating lots of cereal and toast (only the whole grains/”healthy” varieties)………..even though I’m sure grains aren’t so good for me, either. But at least I’m not starving. I’ve cut back on my sugar quite a bit (no money for cookies or chocolate anymore!!!), but I still do crave it from time to time. It’s funny, the Ministry of Health keeps talking of obesity and bad choice foods, yet they allow the crap food to be sold cheap, and the fruits and veggies prices have skyrocketed!!!!!!!!!!!! I’d be able to eat better, more nutritiously if it were the other way around!!!!!

            Yeah, I see what people are filling their shopping carts with, too…….my mom used to shop like that, and I guess I did too, for a long time. Now it’s just the basics. I know families who drink tonnes of pop—every single day………..and I wonder what their dentist thinks of their teeth, or what their stomach looks like!!!!!!!!!!! The only pop I ever have is gingerale once in a while, and only when my stomach is upset (like during those GI tests). One case of 12 usually lasts me about a year and a half!!!!!!!!!!!

            It’s a crazy world out there, compared to “Little House on the Prairie” days!!!!!!!!!! But we’re learning, and trying to do the best we can, for ourselves as well as for our kiddies. If the rest of the world wants to let people control them, and they won’t listen to the truth……what are we going to do???? We warned them!!!!!!!!

            I hope Moose and Whiskers get LOTS better, with no more puking or diarrhea!!!!!!!! Take care, Joanne, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 1, 2014 at 7:00 pm #

            hi ruth.
            I enjoyed your post. We seem to have a lot in common. I am going to start buying tofu as my holistic md says that is fermented soy. I refuse to buy plain soy as I know its not so good for. And no gmo products. What is hard is actually believing the labels. I read on one of holistic mds sheet that drinking a coke depresses the white blood cells for almost five hours. So that explains what sugar and processed foods do to us. When I look at that crap now, I just think of my immune system.

            Moose hasn’t puked at all. You cant believe how great his bms are..No more darr. I just want to tell everyone he is doing good.
            what I wanted to share with you is this…..Mario got a rabies vaccine when he came to me. That is what set off his journey into the horrible…. Dr pitcarin even talks about how bad vaccines are. People think they work…but according to those who really know, they don’t. If they worked, how come people who vaccinated for shingles still get it. Vaccines are a real money maker… And then there are all the side effects which you can attest to. Imagine what they do to us and its not unheard of to understand what they do to our animals. Steve sent me a sheet about the effects of vaccines. I gave that to my local vet here. Funny thing, she doesn’t give her cats the food she sells…She buys wellness for them. She has a sheet that lists good foods to buy. And then when I found out about some others, I gave them to her too. One thing you might want to ask DR G when you can is about a limited diet. I have two cats who will not eat any wet foods I have given them for long. I started trying other brands and found the hounds and gatos rabbit. Its hard to believe…and now I am weening those two off RC dry (ur) to wellness…Ceasar had one uti and I think it was due to stress. Calliope his sister lives with him so I try to keep them on the same food. Calliope is tough when it comes to wet. She would rather have her dry. So I hand feed her and get her to eat 1/4 can…I am working with ozzie getting him to eat wet NV rabbit. He had a mucus plug once. Dolly had a uti once too. So I got them off rc urinary…I have so slow with all the changes.

            Why do indoor cats even need to be vaccinated anyway. And I watched as Mario paid for that horrible vaccine. Dr G and I worked together to get him well. She put him on Chinese herbs and that did it. He got well. His heart murmur is gone too. He is a happy cat. I will never let any vet tell me I have to vaccinate. Doc here isn’t like that and doesn’t do that kind of crap either. But those vaccines do a number on the gi tract. Interesting I have never vaccinated moose, but like steve said, he was probably vaccinated to the hilt when I got him..I took him off all the crap food. As I look back before meeting Dr G Moose did have flair ups with hi gi tract.

            I lost lily to ibd and allopath vet who refused to consider that there was another way. those kind of people are dangerous…They do more harm than good. They hurt the animals just like allopath drs who bully or try to scare us into believing that all these drugs with horrible side effects are good. They aren’t. And they too are closed minded refusing to believe.

            I watched a video by Greg Braden…He showed how a woman from the us went to china with bladder cancer. They had a team of doctors who were trained in energy healing. They had a picture of her bladder on a screen Like an ultra sound. Then they started chanting. The cancer tumor just started shrinking…What greg said, is that is a miracle to western med, but to the Chinese healers its a technique. Why is it, that the ancient ways of healing have been buried or hidden away from us.

            Well I do appreciate your kind words with moose and whiskers…Thank you for thinking about them too. Now If I can get whiskers up and running…I am hoping more preventive … His products come tomorrow. And we will be starting the product after his ua results come in. Dr G will help me figure out dosing. I have written down instructions from VS and she has them too. Then after awhile I guess we will do another ua to see how he is doing.

            You know I don’t really miss crap food…I eat smaller portions now too. Like I said, beans are wonderful…My hubby is a great cook. I love the way he does black beans and navy beans etc. They lots of protein and don’t cost much for a package of them. He soaks them overnight and then cooks them…When we go shopping, we try to be very careful about how much we spend too. food costs are going up. I go to farmers markets and in summer we use to go to local markets to buy. We had a garden this year and next year, jim is going to plant even more. We have a lot of fruit trees and berry plants growing in the yard.

            I am glad to hear that holly is doing better. And you know, think back to the effects of what happen to holly after the vaccination. When I figured that out, that really helped dr. G. And if that rabies did that too her, you will have more clues to work with. You know When you can do a consult with Dr G and she tells you things to get, check and see if the products might be cheaper with VS… I have learned a lot from her… She suggested with moose, that I increase his food intake at last feeding one ounce and see if that helps. I told her I think he is starting to get really hungry at night and then pukes. We shall see.

            joanne

          • Ashley October 1, 2014 at 8:17 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Yikes!!! I tried tofu once………one bite and that was it for me!!! I even tried tofu cheese, but it tasted like rubber. Back when I was in high school, my mom took me to a naturopath (I think I was having environmental problems even then); he did all kinds of allergy testing and put me on all natural food/flours, no sugar or dairy diet; I stayed on it for a year, but didn’t see much difference in my health. It got so expensive buying everything at the health food store, I just went back to a “normal” diet. I tried going by the five food groups, and only eating “healthier foods”…………..turns out all the healthy foods were gmo crap. I agree with you about the labels of foods………it’s hard to know if they’re telling the truth or not. Even at the health food store across the street from me, I have to watch what I buy; the guy there only SELLS the products—he doesn’t actually know how the herbs/supplements work or what I would take if I had such and such a problem, etc. It’s hard to trust someone in that kind of business if they don’t know what they are selling.

            I’m soooooooo glad that Moose hasn’t puked, OR had diarrhea!!!!!!!!!!!!! He’s getting better!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully Whiskers will follow his lead!!!

            I laughed out loud when you said your vet doesn’t feed her pets the food she sells!!!!!!!!!!! Ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!! So why doesn’t she sell WELLNESS, instead of cheap, non-nutritious crap?????? For me, it’s not so much that they sell the stuff……….it’s when they try to bully their clients into feeding it to their pets “or else!!!!!!” Like I was told…………if Holly doesn’t got back on the high fiber diet, she’ll need a subtotal colectomy in the near future!!!!!!!!!!!!! If that isn’t scare tactics, I don’t know what is!!!!!!!!!! I wonder if Royal Canin knows how their products are being forced onto consumers?!?!?!??!?!

            Funny you mentioned the limited diet; when I first started going to Holly’s current vet, she mentioned the limited diet, but we had to put Holly on the S/O diet first, to get rid of her struvite stones. I wonder why she doesn’t consider that now. At least it would have meat in it!!! Even the specialist suggested either a high fiber diet or a low-residue diet (until she talked to Holly’s primary vet, and then turned against me)…………isn’t a raw diet as “low residue” as you can get???? That’s why I started her on it in the first place…….lower stool amount, so easier to pass (or so I thought). FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m back to thinking my kitty needs an instruction manual……..with pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!

            When you say that Calliope and Ceasar live together, and your other cats are paired off……..how big is your house???? Or do you mean they just occupy different rooms??? Do they ever all interact??? I can only imagine how many litter boxes you have………..I have enough trouble buying enough litter for ONE box!!!!!!!!! I can’t use the cheap stuff, because I’m allergic to clay, so I get feline pine pellets. Canadian Tire sells a brand that is almost odourless and very little dust; I’ve tried lots of other brands but they aggravated my asthma.

            Yeah, Steve told me, too, that the vaccines Holly got at the shelter are likely what started her GI issues. Even the flea treatment they gave her made her fur fall out around the treatment site. Damn chemicals!!!!!!!!!!!!! The vet technician tried to tell me Holly needed flea treatment this summer………….I told her I didn’t know which brand Holly had reacted to, so I’d have to wait for her next weigh-in; I never mentioned the flea treatment again, and I refuse to put any on her. I’m too allergic/sensitive to chemicals as it is, and the amount of time I spend with Holly I know I’d be reacting to her every time I got near her. Why do indoor cats need flea treatments anyway?!?!?!??! To make money for the vets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            When I lived at home, we used to go to farmers markets all the time, pick our own berries and apples, etc. There isn’t much around Toronto, though, especially if you don’t have a car. So I have to rely on Food Basics or No Frills. And wait for the sales. I’ll be glad when Empire apples are in season!!! You’re so lucky you’ve got a good hubby who will even cook for you!!!!

            I used to have a veggie garden every summer out on my balcony—I put all the plants in dollar-store flower pots. Even grew corn one year!!!!! The last two years, though, the weather hasn’t been so great for gardening, plus I’ve been so stressed out with Holly, that I didn’t bother. I think next year I might just try again; at least I’d know what’s in the food. Then again, the food would be covered in cigarette and marijuana smoke from my neighbours………….yuck!!!!!!!!!!

            I’m so glad that Dr. G has been able to help get Moose (and all your other babies) on the right track back to health. I’m still a little nervous, working with a doctor who doesn’t come into contact with Holly……………but I trust what you’ve said and experienced, so I’m going to give it a shot……..as soon as I can decrease my Visa a little. And then somehow explain it to Holly’s primary vet!!!!!!!!!! Should be fun—I’m not one for conflict, especially face-to-face (give me a computer, though, and I’ve got no problem letting loose!!!!!). And since Dr. G won’t be able to do any tests or workups or anything, I still have to play nice with the vet’s office. One day at a time!!!!!!!

            I hope you have a good night, Joanne………..and tell Moose he’s not allowed to get sick anymore!!!!!!!! Holly’s orders!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • Ashley October 1, 2014 at 3:08 pm #

            Hi again, Joanne,

            I just got an email from the specialist………Holly’s urinalysis was negative; that could be because I treated her with antibiotics for three days before it made her so sick I had to stop, or it could be she really is okay now. If she has any more problems, I have to take her back for another urinalysis, as well as an ultrasound and bloodwork. I had to give her a bum bath last night because her fur was wet with pee (or maybe from her anal glands???), and her back end STUNK!!!!!!!!!!! She’s been dry ever since (so far), so my fingers are crossed.

            The specialist also commented that, with respect to Holly’s diet, “she will simply re-iterate her recommendation that Holly be fed a veterinary commercial high fiber diet, indicated for cats with constipation. If I have any concerns with the Fiber Response, I’m supposed to consult with Holly’s regular vet, and they can contact other pet food companies for me to identify a diet that better addresses my concerns.” I took a line from your book, and responded, why can’t we just take whatever is in this prescription diet that makes it “special”, and makes Holly poop, and add it to the raw food I’m feeding her????? GGGGRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!! I like the lady, but I don’t like the fact she won’t open her mind to healthier alternatives. I also told her that I am still going to continue feeding Holly partly raw food, so that she would at least be getting SOME nutrition in her!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Ask me if I’M TICKED OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I spent all that money to take her to a “specialist”, and she has one conversation with Holly’s primary vet and then basically ignores my concerns. I should have saved my money.

            Sorry for ranting…………..I was at least hoping the specialist would CONSIDER what I showed her about the ingredients. Guess she already knew how bad they were, and just doesn’t care.

            Okay, I’m taking a deep breath………….and now I’m going to see if my pet insurance will cover any of Dr. G’s costs. That would make things a little easier.

            I hope you and your kiddies have a great night. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 1, 2014 at 7:15 pm #

            omg that would really make me mad too. You know I took Mario to a specialist in texas. I did luck out because he saw my book from Dr ptcarin.. He asked if he could look at it. I said sure. and I told him about Dr G. Well he told me he was sick and tired of the vets in DFW. And he said all they do is steroids. Steroids don’t work. I don’t think I should repeat his actual words…He was actually cheaper than the vets. Well He told me after reading Dr. Pticarins book about skin allergies, he was going out to get a copy. And he said he was going back to school to learn more holistic ways. And then he told me to do everything that Dr. G said to. He said he was doing all the animals a disfavor and needed to learn new ways.

            I guess the light went off. Save everything you have for Dr. G. She wont be surprised to hear about the treatment plan of your vets. You know they refuse to change. They will bully you etc. And if holly has urine problems, I would try some of the uro cleanse from Steve. Even Dr G told me to go ahead and order some. And since his other products worked with moose why not. And make sure you tell Dr G about all the reactions after the rabies shot. I am so sick of those vets lying to us. Their methods don’t work. Even in Dr Ps book, he admits he started out the same way…

            Generally but not always, with the anal gland, they will scoot across the floor…I did learn how to squeeze them, but prefer not to…I am always afraid I might do it wrong. When anal glands get infected, it, I was told its because of the bowel coming out. When its harder, it makes the gland express. And when those glands get infected its a problem…I knew a guy who refused to believe me. He didn’t drive and so I took him to the er. You know he use to think I was full of …..Well when his cat got sick, he came right to me. I told him,the cat had an abscess. Well I was correct. And I told him he fed his cat crap anyway, and this is what happens when you feed your cat crap. And now when I talk to people who own animals, I realize that I spend more time talking to ignorant owners. Now and then, I do find some who have awakened…

            Holly might need some homoepaths….to help her. And you know the nice thing about them, is they don’t cost a lot either. let me know.

            we can only go forward and its high time to switch. those vets are not going to open their minds.

          • Ashley October 1, 2014 at 8:40 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I can’t believe you actually found a specialist who BELIEVED in holistic treatments!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gee, I’m in the wrong country!!!!!!!!!! Good for you for showing him the light!!!!!!!!

            Actually, my first cat, Ashley, used to scoot across the carpet ALL THE TIME. The vet had to express her anal glands a few times, but for the most part they weren’t full. The vet wondered if it was just a learned behaviour. I had the vets check Holly’s anal glands about a month ago, but was told they weren’t full. I can’t believe you have the guts to clear out the anal glands yourself……………..YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even the smell makes me puke!!!!!!!! I hope you use gloves at least!!!!!! And yes, pretty much everyone I’ve told about the crap in the pet food has just looked the other way. Hey, I warned them………..complete with documentation.

            When you say Holly might need some homeopaths……..is that what Steve sells, or is it something different? Even the supplements I saw from Steve’s website are a little pricey for me, especially having to get them shipped to Canada. I might have to only get a couple at a time. I did contact my pet insurance, but I don’t have a “holistic vet” section in my policy, so I’d have to pay for Dr. G and the supplements myself. At least with the regular vet, everything but the exams, taxes, and 10% of the cost is covered; I’ve already paid the deductible for the constipation and urinary problem sections.

            I’m going to get ready to go back to bed; I slept most of the day today, after yesterday’s tests and being awake all the night before. I’m still tired, though, so I think I’ll get to bed early tonight. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 1, 2014 at 9:12 pm #

            hi Ruth I was just wondering…steve ships out free or its included in the price. would it be that way in Canada. You know you raised a good point. I guess steves products would be homeopath because they aren’t rx etc…I don’t know…I do know that the boiron products that dr g and doc have me buy are homeopath. I never thought about that.

            I hope that Dr G might be able to work something out. I do emails with her. You are smart to have pet insurance too. I should look into that. You know in the past, I don’t remember having so many problems…

            And yes, I did wear gloves. But, I just stopped doing it because I thought I was hurting the cats. Its painful. and I sure wouldn’t like someone doing that with me either.

            I have learned a lot, but when it comes to all of this, its hard work. It takes years to learn so much. There are times, now I do know what to do and have an extensive amount of homeopath around to help me out. I know that steves products are expensive…But, I will tell you this, when I see all the progress being made, it makes me grateful. I just want him to get well…

            That specialist was in texas.. He was really nice.. He said he had never realized that there was a different approach to treating animals and I said people to. It would really be nice if you could find a vet up there that wasn’t so geared to standard treatment and practiced holistic treatment. I wonder what did they do before there was all of this rx food etc…

          • Ashley October 3, 2014 at 3:48 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I just realized tonight that what I posted LAST night didn’t go through; no idea what I did wrong, but it’s not up on the website…………and I have no idea what I did or didn’t say!!!!!!!!!!! My mind is like teflon—nothing sticks!!!!!

            I hope Moose and Whiskers are doing okay, with no litter box issues.

            I decided to take Holly OFF the prescription crap (without telling the vet, of course). I just couldn’t go another day feeding her that stuff, knowing that there’s no real food in it. I still had some Wysong Uretic kibble I had gotten in the summer but didn’t finish, when I transitioned Holly over to wet food, so that’s what I’m using with the raw food. It’s still dry kibble, but at least the first couple of ingredients are MEAT!!! AND there are no by-products!!!!! AND Holly pooped this morning, without me having to give her any additional laxatives, so I think it must have lots of fiber in it, too. At least she didn’t keep waking me up all last night, so it must be more filling, too!!!!!!!!! I don’t plan on telling the vet unless she asks; why rock the boat needlessly?!??!?!?

            I also found another website online, Feline Nutrition Awareness Effort. I contacted the owner of the site, telling her about Holly not being able to poop while eating wet or raw food. She suggested I try increasing the Psyllium slowly, to even double the amount I was giving her. I did that last night, and that’s when she pooped this morning (possibly co-incidence). I’m going to keep trying it, since this is one of the main fiber sources in her prescription crap (I can’t handle calling it “food” anymore!!!!!!). Maybe that’s all she needs. I had to buy more prescription pills for Holly today, so another big chunk was taken out of my Visa (thankfully Trupanion paid me back insurance claims yesterday).

            If you decide to get pet insurance, I’ve found Trupanion to be the best one by far……………I’ve made THOUSANDS of dollars in claims, and they pay out with no questions asked. Once you pay the deductible for the problem your kitty has (urinary/constipation/respiratory/etc.), your kitty is covered for life under that section; you just have to pay 10% of the cost, plus taxes and exam fees. When I had Ashley, I had a different pet insurance company………..and they were useless; almost every problem Ashley had, “oh, we don’t cover that”. It was a waste of money.

            Not much else is new in this part of the world. I hope you and your babies had a good day, and have a good weekend. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 3, 2014 at 5:37 pm #

            Hi Ruth
            so good to hear from you. I have been busy…You know I am so glad to hear about holly. Maybe everything you are doing is starting to work. That was the deal with steves products. I had to keep testing. I think he sells products for constipation. It would be great if holly drank more water on her own. But, I believe like you that rx crap is crap. Whiskers is still on the s/d. he goes for a ur on Tuesday. Then after that I let dr g know his results and then we transition him onto the new product I got from steve. In the long run it will be cheaper buying one product instead of several. Jim and me do subq fluids on him…You know he was on good food and still got cyrstals. so we have to change hi urine to more acid..

            Heres some good news..Moose has not had diarr since last sunday. He started puking tho. Well, I wrote to dr. G. She put him on sulfur 30 c three times a day. yesterday was the first day. I got up and no puke. He is starting to fill out. I just cant wait to take him to doc on Tuesday. You know you are starting to have some results. That is wonderful. I can just imagine what the allopath vet would be thinking. Most of them refuse to even believe in holistic med.

            thanks for the information on pet insurance. I am really thinking about it on two cats. whiskers and moose. the others have been pretty healthy. But I plan to save your information. And I know about wysong products too. They make a lot of products and they claim they are pretty good. I had Mario on one of their wet can foods that dr told me about. my cats really do like their products.

            I also believe in smaller amounts at feeding time and feeding more often. this seems to really help. But you still wonder, why does this happen. And it does happen with humans too. Since I started going to the holistic md, my problems that I use to have went away. He gave me some information on keeping the immune system strengthened up. I read that drinking one coke can depress the white blood cell count for up to five hours. I don’t drink coke, but found that interesting. I got these neat vits from Dr. G. Moose loves them. So I think that crap food for kitties does something to tear down the immune system. What do you think.

            Canada and the usa seem to follow the same protocol per the vets… They seem to suffer from tunnel vision. For those who break free, benefits more of us.

            joanne

          • Ashley October 3, 2014 at 6:16 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            That’s AWESOME news about Moose not having diarrhea since Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m sorry he’s still got tummy troubles, though. I’m glad Dr. G was able to help.

            I REALLY hope Whiskers’ test turns out okay, so he can get off the S/D food. Just before you emailed me, I wrote a long letter to Royal Canin, telling them what I found out about their (lack of) “food ingredients”, and that I was ticked off that they’ve been peddling all this food to vets………who in turn bully their pet owners into putting the pets on the food!!!!!!!!!!! Too bad your email address doesn’t show up, or I’d send you a copy. I was MAD, and let them know it!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Holly is still pretty lethargic, but after having two kitties who slept most of their lives, I’m wondering how long is too much………or if this is just normal behaviour for a cat. Just having her not wake me up last night, though, that was a miracle in itself—so I know the Wysong Uretic is at least filling her up a bit more. AND she pooped, so my fingers are crossed.

            You reminded me, though, that I haven’t given Holly her subq fluids since Wednesday (my hands have been too shaky after those tests to hold the needle steady); maybe that’s part of her sleepiness. I REALLY wish she would drink water on her own………….but even before I started canned and raw foods, she wasn’t much of a water drinker. That’s why I always add water to her raw food, so at least I know she’s getting SOME hydration.

            I remember in one of your emails you mentioned that either you or your vet fed Wellness to the kitties……………I read a LOT online about so many kitties getting struvite stones from eating Wellness food; I’m not sure which flavours or if it was just dry food, but you might want to stay away from that brand if your kitty already has urinary problems.

            About the pet insurance: if your cats already have pre-existing conditions, they won’t be covered for any of those problems (ie, Whiskers wont’ be covered for urinary problems). SORRY!!!!!!!!!! I forgot to mention that at first. That doesn’t mean the insurance won’t cover other problems, though—you’d have to ask. It’s also why it might be a good idea to put your “healthier” cats on insurance now………so that if anything does happen in the future, at least the insurance will pay for it. I know, at first I thought it was too much money for something that “might” happen…………..but in Holly’s case it sure paid off!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wouldn’t have been able to keep her if it weren’t for Trupanion…………and I tell them that every time they repay my claims!!!!!!!!!

            I don’t understand how people can even DRINK Coke!!!!!!! Gross!!!!!!!! My dad used to drink it all the time……………yuck!!!!!!!! It’s actually got its purpose, though…………if you pour it over your car engine, it will clean the dirt and rust off…..or so they say. I don’t have a car to try it out on. I do know, though, that the acid can dissolve tooth enamel—I had a friend whose teeth were horrible from all the coke she drank “to stay awake”. Give me chocolate ANY day!!!!!!!!!!

            Yup, Canada and the USA do seem to have vets who rely on what “food companies” teach (or don’t teach) them; I’ve brought in lots of info on raw diets to Holly’s vet, that show results in cats………..but was told to stick to the veterinary approved diets that have “scientific research” behind them. GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don’t get me wrong; I DO like Holly’s vet and all the staff there, and I DO like the specialist I took Holly to…………..but I think I’ll trust my own instincts when it comes to her nutrition. The vets can do all the tests and treat her for other problems, but her food stays in MY hands!!!!!!!! Funny, after deciding that, I feel SO MUCH relief, like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders!!!!!!!!!! I guess it’s the lack of stress, knowing I won’t let anyone else push me around anymore, ESPECIALLY about my baby’s health care!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope you have a good night, Joanne. Take care, ’cause I care………..and give all your babies hugs for me!!!!!

            Ruth

          • joanne October 3, 2014 at 8:12 pm #

            Hi again

            I just wanted to say when whiskers got sick with stones, I had him on raw food. I couldn’t believe this had happened. However, sometimes crystals can be genetics too. But because I had took good care of him and he was fed good food, maybe I prevented it sooner…I don’t know. I never fed him wellness.
            whiskers must know I am talking about him. He is in my lap as I type to you. He is my alpha cat. He is so smart.

            that’s great that you wrote rc…Probably will get one of their stupid standard letters. I called them on the phone. And when the rep came into docs office, I told them, I hated that my cat had to eat that crap food. doc wont feed it to her cats either. All of the companies make such outrageous claims about how good their food is. Most of it is junk.

            My cats sleep a lot too. What I always look for are things that just don’t seem cat like. Like with moose not wanting to be picked up when he hurt so bad. With whiskers he would go in and out the box and just not want to move at times. Then when Mario ate the toy, he puked and had sever anxiety. His breathing was fast.. With ozzie, he wouldn’t come out of the box. There are signs we see and things we just know. I always feel their ears and face to make sure they aren’t hot. And when they wont eat, that means something is wrong for my cats.

            When they hurt, their stress levels go up and so do mine. I admit that I feel helpless. And when they get sick, it generally seems after vet hours which means a trip to the pet hospital. I have learned a lot over the years. But there are our babies and there isn’t anything we wont do… So I figure if we can just figure out proper care maybe, we can avoid them getting so sick.

            I know how hard it is to be by oneself when these crisis happen. Before we relocated to Utah, I was by myself because my hubby had relocated first. It was intense a few times esp when things went wrong. I had everything to take care of. Our babies depend on us. But in the end, when they jump in our laps, or give us a kiss or just rub up against us, its all worth it.

            ruth you have a wonderful night with holly. I am just so glad she is doing better.

          • Ashley October 3, 2014 at 8:47 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            About Whiskers getting stones while eating a raw diet…….was he eating dry food at all before that? I was told that stones take a long time to form, and cats can go years without even showing any abnormal symptoms (or ones where we automatically know there’s something wrong). Holly used to leave little pee marks on my bed and the chairs for a couple of years; I asked her first vet about it, and he wasn’t concerned; he said it could be that her fur was wet after she used the litter box. However, once she got her new vet, and was diagnosed with struvite stones, I realized she HAD been leaving me clues all along………I just didn’t know what to look for. So what I’m trying to say is, it might not have been the raw diet that caused the stones, but whatever Whiskers was eating beforehand. Does that make sense? I also read that crystals are OFTEN found in cats bladders………but as long as they aren’t causing any blockages or pain, the vet doesn’t need to do anything about them. I can’t remember of Lisa Pierson or Dr. Becker said that—those are the only two I really listen to anymore.

            I’ve gotten replies from Royal Canin and Hill’s in the past when I’ve written letters………….they always pass off my cats’ problems as something I did wrong, as opposed to their food being the culprit. If only I was a lawyer…………Well, they aren’t going to kill THIS cat, no matter WHAT the vet wants me to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Yup, I always know for sure when Holly doesn’t want to be picked up or have her belly rubbed, that she’s in pain. I try to massage her belly anyway, if she’ll let me, ’cause usually it means she’s constipated; massaging just helps the food move along. And if Holly is ever NOT hungry……………that’s a medical EMERGENCY in our house!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of Rescue Remedy by Bach’s Flowers? They’ve got a whole bunch of—I guess you’d say homeopathic remedies—out for people, but they have one that is alcohol free for pets. ( http://www.bachflower.com/rescue-remedy-pet/) I had to order mine from the States, ’cause Canada only sells the Remedy with alcohol in it (and I’m allergic to alcohol……………many days I wish I wasn’t!!!!!!!!). I’ve given two drops to Holly the last two days, because she’s been extremely jumpy lately (all those vets poking her!!!!!), and it’s amazing the change. She still jumps up to the window when the birds land on our balcony, but she doesn’t jump at the construction noises or the vacuum cleaner or even me yelling anymore (I yell out the windows to tell my neighbours to stop smoking, ’cause the smoke blows in my windows). Maybe being less anxious will also help her poop better, too. We’ll see.

            I sure don’t envy you having to have stayed by yourself with all the kiddies and the house while your hubby moved first. I mean, I’m used to living on my own (I’ve done it since I was 18), but when you’re used to your husband there to help, it’s gotta be hard not having him around. Especially when things go wrong!!!!!!!!! I’m glad the two of you are together again!!!!!!! Your hubby sounds like a good guy!!!!! Normally, guys aren’t on my “nice” list!!!!!!!!!!

            Hope you all have a great night. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth
            missashleywebb@gmail.com

          • joanne October 4, 2014 at 10:51 am #

            hi ruth
            when I got whiskers he was about a year or so old. I remember that the lady had fed him fancy feast grill fish. I let him eat that for awhile until he got adjusted. I then put him on other foods.. when Mario got sick, I had contacted dr G. She put him on wyong wet..Whiskers started eating it so , I let him…I started mixing the raw food into the wet and slowly getting them on raw. I don’t know what the lady fed him from before. but do know starting in 2008, whiskers and Mario began eating the same diet. He had a few utis in texas. Then he was fine or so I thought. No problems until 2011. OMG, it was horrible. I thought at first he was constipated. Well Doc called me and told me. She tried a number of things, but nothing worked. and she said surgery Is the last resort. From what I learned, the vets around here, don’t want to do surgery unless nothing else works. And when ozzie got the mucus plug, I thought they were going to suggest surgery, but no, he didn’t produce crystals.. I never noticed any tiny pee stains etc either. But I will mention this information to doc. thanks for lettimg me know.. One thing is for sure, I will be testing whiskers every 6 months from here on out.

            I have lots of bach remedies. Some of them really smell pretty nice Between Dr. G. and Doc, I have many of them. I like rescue remedy…humans can use it to. Lots of allopath vets don’t know about them…Have you ever heard of standard process. I found out about this product in texas. Dr. G told me about it. I use cardiac on Mario and immunity on whiskers and enteric with moose. They have liver and whole body. Its a good product.

            I am glad you wrote those companies. But would they ever admit to crap, I doubt it. I called one of them like I told you before and the woman was nasty to me. She went on claiming to be an authority on nutrition. I brought up a few ingredients from that article I sent you. Well it was pleasant. But I did say if you were such an authority, wouldn’t you know about the crap you use. I also said, you get paid to promote the products and you would sell your soil to the highest bidder. She hung up on me.

            I read a lot of Dr P and also DR B….I use a product called spurgreen that I learned about on Dr. Beckers site. I asked Dr G what she thought of it, and she said looks good. That spurgree makes my furkids coats just shine.

            You know Ruth, even when food says organic etc or non gmo…..who really knows whats in the food. Can we believe the labeling. many countries refuse to accept grains grown in this country anymore…reason…they don’t want gmo in their countries. Soybeans have been spliced with round up…Its no wonder humans and animals are getting cancer at such alarming rates.

            Well, moose puked some today….but there is no diarrhea…He now has real stools…I owe that all to vitality science. He has even started gaining weight again. Now just have to work on the empty tummy syndrome….

            take care
            joanne

          • Ashley October 4, 2014 at 12:05 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I LOVE what you said to the pet food company!!!!!!!!!!!! And, no, of course they aren’t going to admit using crap in their food. That’s why when I sent the email, I included the definitions of each ingredient—told them the definitions came from Wikipedia, if they wanted to verify—I’m not sure what I’m going to get in reply, but it felt good blasting them!!!!!!!!!!! Just wish I could knock some sense into the vets, too. You’d think if they SAW the ingredients, SAW what the definitions meant, they’d change their tune and stop pushing this crap on customers. But hey, I’m just a cat mom, not a vet………..I’ve got no degree, no vet education………but I do have a sense of what’s right and wrong, and I know it’s wrong to feed crap to a cat who can’t fend for herself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The vets don’t have to live with Holly waking them up every night begging for food, don’t have to worry about her organs failing or her fur falling out; that’s my job, and I am taking it seriously!!!!!!!!!!!! I refuse to take any more bullying from vets trying to sell me their junk food with vitamins!!!!!!!!!!!

            No, I’ve never heard of standard process. Actually, the only reason I know about the Bach Flower treatments is because the lady who used to own a small health food store across the street from me told me of them a long time ago. I didn’t even know they had remedies for pets until I found it online. I was told Holly could have the human formulas, but since I’m allergic to alcohol (that’s what the base is made of), I didn’t want to chance it, so I ordered the pet formula from the States. I looked up spirugreen online, and it does look like a good product. I actually found it cheapest for me on iHerb.com, and went to place an order………….only to find that a DOCTOR would have to have it approved for me before it gets shipped to Canada; somehow I don’t think my vet will agree!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t understand our laws……….they can import health food supplements for health food stores, but I can’t do it on my own?!?!?!?!? I’ll try looking around here for it, but I’ve never even heard of it until you mentioned it.

            Yes, I do know (now) not to take labels at face value, especially when it says “all natural” or even has the red healthy heart checkmark on it (companies pay to have that put on products!!!!). Unless it has the organic seal on it, I don’t trust the products advertising. I even looked at my Shredded Wheat and Bran cereal this morning……..it doesn’t say “GMO” on it, but from all I’ve heard I wouldn’t be surprised if it was. There aren’t a lot of cereals that don’t have sugar and salt added, though, so I just stick with this one.

            You said that Moose pukes when he’s hungry…….what exactly is he throwing up? Is it just phlegm, or digested food? I’ve never heard of kitties puking because they’re hungry (not that I was looking for that, anyway). I’m glad he hasn’t had any diarrhea, though………that’s a relief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You’ve got one end of him fixed!!!!!!!

            So far, Holly hasn’t pooped yet today, but it wasn’t until day 2 that she pooped the last time, so there’s still time. It’s always nerve-wracking, waiting for her to use the litter box!!!!!!!!!! I finally gave Holly her subq fluids last night……………I think from now on I’m going to do that earlier in the daytime; she was bouncing off the walls (and my dresser and desk and bed) all night!!!!!!!!!!! All I’d hear was THUNK!!!!!, and have to open my eyes to see where she landed. She’s not supposed to get up on my desk or dresser (too much to knock off), but she knows I’m not going to get out of bed to make her get down, so she does it anyway. Monkey girl!!!!!!!!!!! That’s my baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope you and your babies are having a good day. Take care, Joanne, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 4, 2014 at 12:46 pm #

            Hi ruth

            I was told by someone I met in a forum that Canada has tough laws against suppl. I cant believe it. I hope it doesn’t happen here. And my holistic md told me that some suppl companies are like drug companies. these corporations get away with so much. Car companies make crappy products that don’t work. people get killed and then they deny they did anything wrong. drug companies make products that hurt people and then deny they had anything to do with it.

            standard process makes products that are design to help humans and animals. They help boost the immune system…I am going to write Dr G and let her know the first night no puking. then the second night some puking. it happens between the time we go to bed and when I feed him breakfast. His tummy is empty and he is hungry. And it could be acid etc. I am going to start increasing his portion at night and see if that will hold him…But I always ask Dr G first. Well whiskers and moose go on Tuesday to see doc. Whiskers has a ua and moose has a weigh in. I want him to be the biggest winner, I am just amazed with his progress.

            I asked doc one time about cats and bm….I was told a cat doesn’t necessarily have to go every day…Some cats don’t. When moose started holding his stools in longer, I was worried he was going to get constipated etc. Well He didn’t. Sometimes, as he was recovering, he didn’t go for over 24 hours… Now that he is eating more, he is going a bit more. And all are real live stools, no diarr. I give whiskers his subq at night too. He just pees it out. But at least its flushing his system out. I got the product from VS for whiskers. After his ua, he will start on that product. Dr. G will get his lab work and make the final call per dose etc. Doc here always refers to her when it comes to the suppls and remedies because she says Dr. G knows so much.

            I think you are doing a wonderful job with holly. She is going. And if you can help keep her cleaned out by what you are doing, that is super. Everything you can do, is one less things you have to put up with so vets who refuse to listen. that is why I like holistic med. the people who practice are more open minded.

            Well after I said what I did to that woman, she did hang up on me. That proves the point. if they cant bs you, then they want you to go away. We have to start standing up for ourselves. I even had several doctors try to bully me into taking their crap drugs. I stood up for myself and said no. I really enjoy my holistic md. I have seen so many great results for me too.

            Joanne

          • Ashley October 4, 2014 at 1:42 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Yeah, on one hand I can understand not letting some products into Canada (like stuff from China—-all the poisons they use in their foods and pet foods); but stuff that’s actually made in the US, I don’t understand what the problem is. I watch a program on TV called Border Security, where the Border Security police are always screening passengers and mail for stuff that shouldn’t be coming into Canada; sometimes they stop drugs from coming in, sometimes it’s plant and animal products—they don’t want our eco-system harmed by insects or diseases that may or may not be in those products. I understand that. But stuff that’s in a sealed bottle, from a reputable company………..don’t understand why that can’t come in. Guess I’ll have to keep my eyes open over here for supplements.

            When Whiskers pukes, is it ONLY at night time? If so, is it possible that it’s an anxiety problem—-you and Jim have gone to bed, the rest of the kitties are sleeping, and the house is dark; maybe he just needs to know you guys aren’t going to leave him????? Just a thought. Would it make any difference if he slept in the bedroom with you guys, maybe in his carrier, just so he knows you’re there???

            Thank you for saying I’m doing a good job with Holly!!! Some days, I’m pulling my hair out, not knowing what to do with her, always anxious that I’m going to have to take her back to the vet. Maybe that’s part of HER anxiety problem…………she sees that I’m so upset and it’s rubbing off on her. But I don’t know how to be any other way; I’m a mom with a sick kitty………..and I worry!!!!!!! I wonder if all moms are like this.

            You’ve got a lot of guts, actually calling the pet food company…………that’s one thing I can’t do. I can’t think fast enough to counter what they are saying, especially when people get me upset. I can write letters or send emails, but face-to-face or phone conflicts are just not my thing. I’ve had a lot of time to “practice” getting good at conflicts (I had a “wonderful” family!!!!), but when people start talking fast or raise their voices, I tend to freeze and can’t say or do anything. I’m SO GLAD, though, that YOU were able to do it!!!!!!!!!!! Put that lady in her place, even if she thinks she won………….she didn’t, ’cause you aren’t buying her food anymore!!!!!!!!!!! That’s what they get for lying to customers, and trying to peddle stuff onto us that is high-priced crap. Even MICE have more nutrition than most of the prescription cat food!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I haven’t had doctors bully me into taking their drugs lately………….but quite a few years I did. They made me sicker than I was before I started their drugs, and after I ended up in the hospital the doc refused to see me again. Hmmmmmmmm………..did I screw up or did he?!?!?!?!? It was a long, rough road, but things have improved since then. One doc even gave me meds that came close to killing my liver—he was supposed to monitor my liver with blood tests but didn’t; if it wasn’t for my GP noticing my yellowish skin, the meds would have killed me. When I called the doc who wrote the script, he never did return any of my phone calls!!!!!!!!!!!! Fools!!!!!!!!!!! Quick to pass out drugs like they are candy, but never take responsibility for the side effects. Now I won’t put anything in my (or Holly’s) mouth unless I read what’s in it, what the side effects are, and what I need to watch for in case of emergency.

            I hope you guys have a great night tonight. And hopefully Whiskers doesn’t puke!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 4, 2014 at 5:07 pm #

            Hi Ruth
            with all my cats, its moose who is puking sometime between pm and am…Dr G thinks its empty tummy syndrome. When his tummy gets empty, then I guess acid starts. I am going to feed him a little extra food tonight and see what happens. I don’t want to over feed him tho. and my friend came over today and looked at moose and couldn’t believe the change in him. I am so greatful to the people at VS. Now I am going to start their uro cleanse next on whiskers. I have to call them and make sure about dosing.

            I think if drug companies had their way, they would force everyone to be on some kind of drug along with animals too. Well the steroids sure didn’t help moose. I cant wait for doc to see moose on Tuesday. Keep your fingers crossed.

            Doc told me that cats can really feel our stress and anxiety. So, I do my best to stay calm around my kitties. We just have to learn to hide it from them. If Holly feels you get tense etc, it might rub off on her. I would keep tract of everything you are doing esp where you are having positive results.

            One day something is legal, the next day, you get busted for having a product. I wonder just who decides. not the peons that for sure.

            Well, after what I said, to that woman, I just laughed partly because she hung the phone up on me. You see when you ask them things or point things out to them that they haven’t been trained to parrot, they don’t know what to do. I should have called back and let them know their cs hung up on me. Oh well. There are so many things on the market that really are not good for us…..esp most drugs…I heard some jerk on tv one time saying that everyone over 40 should be on statin drugs. bs… My holistic md says they are bad. And I cant believe how they are always lowering this level or that level knowing full well that the level are just a joke so they can sell more drugs.

            I do think you are doing your best. and yes I know what it is like to take care of a sick kitty. Its hard work. For those who don’t know, its something no one wants to go through. You are a nurse full time watching and waiting. and then when there is a change for the worst, its sickening… but when you see them get better, the rewards cant even be described in words.. So try to keep calm if you can.

            joanne

          • Ashley October 4, 2014 at 5:53 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I LOVE your sense of humour!!!!!!!!!!! That would have been funny, if you had called the company back and told them that the woman hung up on you!!!!!!!!!!!! I’d love to be a fly on the wall when she got busted!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Sorry I goofed up your kitties names—I realized it as soon as I hit send. Oops!!!!

            If Steve hadn’t already told me he didn’t know how to help Holly, I’d consider giving them a call and see if they could suggest something to keep Holly pooping. I did read their constipation section and their GI section………….but I wouldn’t have a clue which supplement to pick; and my problem is that I can only afford to get one at a time, especially with shipping to Canada. I’m surprised Steve is even ALLOWED to ship to Canada—nobody else seems to be able to. Crazy government rules!!!!!!!!

            Too bad you couldn’t put a “midnight snack” in a pet feeder for Moose, so that he doesn’t have to wait the whole night for you to get up. I actually used to do that for Holly, when she was eating dry food, because she was always waking me up every hour for food. It didn’t last long, though. I’ve got a VERY smart cat…………………at first she waited patiently for the dishes to open up at 4:00AM; but when we cut her calories to lose weight, she got impatient. She started banging her head against the dishes until they opened up and she got her food!!!!!!!!! I was afraid all the banging in the middle of the night was going to wake the neighbours and get me into trouble (not to mention hurt Holly’s head!!!!!), so instead, I just let her wake me up at 4:00AM for her last/first meal of the day. It’s a disruption, but it’s better than getting woken up every hour…………….and she’s pretty good at telling the time; she usually wakes me up within about 15 minutes before or after 4:00.

            I often see drug reps going in and out of my doctor’s office while I’m waiting for my appointments. From what a friend told me, the docs then only prescribe those drugs to patients…………rather than trying to get the right drug for the patient’s condition, they often just prescribe what the drug reps drop off. Hmmmm, wonder how much the docs get for selling the drugs!!!!!!!!!

            I’ve heard a lot of kitties don’t do well on the steroids………and I don’t blame them. It’s a nasty drug with lots of side effects (personal experience!!!!). I REALLY hope the doc thinks Moose is in better shape now!!!!!!!!! My fingers ARE crossed………..for the both of you!!!!!!!!!!!!! But you’ll do okay; if your friend can notice a different (without a doctor’s degree), than surely the doc will be impressed!!!!!!!!!!! As long as Moose is feeling better………..that’s the main point!!!!!!!!

            Yeah, I’ve heard many times that kitties can sense our stress. I tend to hide it from everyone else I see (whenever I get out of the apartment), but when I get home, that’s when I really let my feelings out. I guess I’m not doing such a good job for Holly. Some days I just go into my bedroom and crawl under the covers, just so I don’t blow up in front of her. We’ve got neighbours from H-LL living below us, and a few more down the hallway; I’ve had to call the police a number of times because they keep me up banging on the walls (which makes my floor vibrate). Plus they enjoy their marijuana………….but the landlord can’t do anything unless they are caught smoking the stuff. Frustrating……………….and I guess Holly DOES see that stress/anger/frustration in me. I’d love to take Holly and live on a deserted island somewhere!!!!!!!!!!! Peace and quiet, and no cigarette or marijuana smoke!!!!!!! Hey, I can dream!!!!!!!!

            Hmmmmmmmmmm, “Nurse Ruth”………has a good ring to it!!!!! And my “degree” is “experience based”!!!!!! Yes, it does break my heart when Holly has a turn for the worse, but when she poops………..it’s like I do my Happy Dance!!!!!!!!!! You’ve never seen someone so excited to clean poop out of a litter box before!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Actually, I’ve never minded cleaning the litter box—for my own cats, that is. I had to do it for a friend a number of times, and she NEVER cleaned the box…….it was gross. I think because I clean Holly’s box as soon as she uses it (unless it’s the middle of the night), it never gets stinky like my friend’s box did.

            I hope you have a good night, Joanne…………and tell Moose no more puking tonight—Holly’s orders!!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 5, 2014 at 3:17 pm #

            hi Ruth
            sorry it took me so long to get back to you. on the weekends, I just have lots to do. I get what I can do on the weekdays and jim is good to help.

            good news, moose didn’t puke. I have increased the amounts of feedings now. And also, I give him one extra feeding in the afternoon and save some for an extra feeding to get him through the night..i am just guessing. I don’t want to overfeed him.

            Surely you could get suppls for pets…Everything that steve sells, is natural… I know that when I order they pay for the shipping. (probably included in the price) it would be nice if you could have on consultation with dr g pertaining to what you should get for holly for her bowels.

            I need to call vs and make sure I have the right instructions for when whiskers goes on uro cleanse next. his next ua is Tuesday and I want to be prepared. I do plan to put him on the pet flora for his gut next. That is a probitioic…That helps too. And then I can get a digestive enzyme for him…He is taking those things, but I think steves are better. Then I have to ask about how long he is going to be on the suppls he is on now. Since he had pancreatitis, I have to find out about that too.

            Its hard work and the cost factor is hard too. But with the suppls working, that will cut down the vet trips etc. So with moose slowly getting well, its just going to take time. He has so much weight to gain back. That is really going to take time. Today is sunday so its been one week and moose with regular stools again.

            I am glad I go to a holistic md. He doesn’t push pills on me or vaccines. I read on Dr Mercolla, that he doesn’t even think they work anyway. Just a way to make money….and its scary about the side effects. people die and so do animals..

            I sure wish I had known about steve back in 2010 when I had to put lily down. She weighed three pounds and believe me dr g tried everything on her. Once she did rebound for some time and then boom….just like what the article said. It just comes back. She was such a sweet kitty….But at least I am able to save moose now.

            I hope you are having a nice weekend. and I would just hate crappy neighbors. Been there and been through that too. Funny thing, Canada lets marj. in, but not suppls. LOL… Proably pot is better for people than all those nasty rx drugs.

            take care

          • Ashley October 5, 2014 at 4:19 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Never worry about not getting back to me right away……….with all your kitties, I know you’ve got LOTS to do!!!!! Plus I’m sure you’ve got more of a life than I do!!!!!!!! I’m glad you’ve got Jim to help you, especially with so many babies to take care of.

            Yay!!!!! Moose listened to Holly’s orders, and didn’t puke!!!!!!!! That’s awesome!!!!!!! And I’m glad you’ve worked out a better feeding schedule for him, so he doesn’t get an upset tummy at night. And I’m SO GLAD he’s had normal stools this past week………..I know how much of a relief that is!!!!!!!!!! Do you have to write down the schedules for all your kitties??? I wouldn’t be able to keep them all straight, with all the supplements they are on, which illnesses they have……….I have a hard enough time just keeping up with Holly’s supplements and meds!!!!!!!!!!!! And even for HER, I have to have a schedule written down, over the counter where I prepare her meals!!!!

            From what I remember of Steve’s website, you have to spend $50 in order to qualify for free shipping; but I’m pretty sure that only includes the USA………most US websites won’t ship free to Canada.

            I can’t even imagine the pain you went through with Lily being so sick……..and so small!!!! Three pounds—WOW!!!!!!!!!! When I adopted Ashley almost 20 years ago, she was only 4 pounds; she had been found wandering the streets before Animal Control brought her to the Humane Society. I thought SHE was small……..but Lily was even tinier………….Poor baby girl!!!!!!!!!!!!! And poor YOU for having to watch her suffer so much!!!!!!!!!

            I thought I would be able to get an appointment with Dr. G within the next week or so, but the specialist emailed me last week to remind me that Holly needs to have another urinalysis done the middle of October, to make sure her infection is cleared up. And if the problems persist, she recommended I get a blood panel and an ultrasound of her bladder and kidneys to find out what’s going on. So far, she hasn’t had any more wet, pee-stained fur the last couple of days, but I’m not an optimist………….I know things will eventually go wrong again!!!!!!!!!!

            I might call Vitality Science tomorrow, explain that I got an email from Steve—who told me he didn’t know what to do to help Holly—and see if they could at least recommend one product that might help get her colon working properly again. I checked out all the supplements, but have no idea which one might or might not work for Holly…………’cause I still have no idea what her problem is. That was the whole point of going to the specialist, to find out why she couldn’t/wouldn’t poop. The doc told me what WASN’T wrong with her, but had no idea what WAS/IS wrong with her.

            Have you ever tried using coconut oil in your kitties’ diets??? I’ve read on lots of websites that it’s supposed to be good for their coats and digestion and joints. Of course Holly’s vet won’t endorse it (because it isn’t a prescription!!!!), but I’ve been giving her 1/4 tsp for the last week, and increased it to 1/2 tsp today, hoping it will help get her pooping better. That’s on top of the Psyllium and Restoralx and Pumpkin. She SHOULD be all “greased up”, but there still hasn’t been any poop yet today. I keep telling her she needs to poop, or I’ll have to take her back to the vet……..but she doesn’t always do what I ask!!!!!!!

            I’m pretty sure pot is an illegal substance in Canada (I’ve seen them stop it at the border security on that television show I watch sometimes)………..but the people who smoke it have to be caught in the act; and then there are the people who grow it illegally, too………….as long as they don’t get caught, they can do whatever they want. At least with prescription drugs, if you take them—it’s you putting the drugs into YOUR body, so you really can’t blame anyone else (unless the doctors twist your arm!!!); with marijuana smoke, yes it’s the smokers who are inhaling the crap……….but the smoke travels to other people and other people’s apartments, and most of us (especially ME) don’t want that poison entering our lungs. Same with cigarettes. Don’t even get me started on that topic!!!!!!

            I hope Moose has another good night tonight, and you all have a great week ahead, ESPECIALLY when you go to the vet on Tuesday!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 5, 2014 at 6:49 pm #

            Hi Ruth

            I just want to say about coconut oil…its good for hairballs. I have been using it for years along with pumpkin and then something happened with Mario and whiskers. Now mind you, they didn’t have constipation issues. I gave the c oil to both of them….1/2t…remember this was part of the routine. That night I rushed Mario to the er. I tried to feed him and he puked. I was scared. I made them do an xray to make sure he hadn’t eaten anything like a toy etc. I had him on flaygl for a week. the c oil has given him colitis. He had diarr too. Whiskers seemed fine. But then the next afternoon, he started with it…I took him to a vet close to me that I know. He had colitis too. well it didn’t end there. I had been giving all my cats pumpkin for years. So whiskers gets sick again and another round of flaygl. I told the vet. they said pumpkin is one of those things that can go either way. the runs or binding… or nothing…Then ceasar gets sick with diarrhea… That was when I realized they all had pumpkin in common.

            The coil is good for digestion and fur balls. I never dreamed after all the years I had been using it, that it would do that. I started with 1/4t and I had missed a few days so I increased… And I had been using the pumpkin too. I still will never understand what happened.

            I will tell you this along with moose and his diarrhea, I had three other cats with it…Jim was good to help me. The cats love him. He is really good with them. Doc says he has a special gift to communicate with them. I wish he could ask them what happened when they got sick besides the fact that I got so scared. I had put Mario in his kennel and we were going to the car in the garage. He was screaming and the neighbors heard them. I left and jim was outside. The lady asked jim what happened. He told her and she having a cat got really worried too. When I got to the er, they were there to greet me. He was screaming again. I took him in the room. I took him out of the kennel and sat with him. The vet was really nice. She really didn’t want to do an xray, but since I insisted because of what had happened in the past, she said ok. We got to er before the clinic switched from regular hours to er house. That really saved on money.

            The vet I took whiskers too is also owned by the same people who own the other clinic that turns into er…Whiskers had his surgery at that place. Doc refers people to a certain vet who does the surgeries…He just adored whiskers. They all did. He gave all of them hell. Well, so I took whiskers in. They were very nice to me. There was a lady there and when she saw whiskers, she asked if she could hold him. I said sure. She started crying because she had lost her kitty to kidney failure (very young age). She took whiskers and showed him to everyone. Whiskers being the hamball he is, loved it.. He had a good time. Then I put whiskers in his kennel. I sat the kennel by the receptionist. Then I said to the lady, watch this. I called whiskers, and he answered. I did it several times and he continued to answer. By now other people had gathered round. Whiskers was on cloud nine. He really is smart. I told that lady to call me anytime she wanted and she could come and visit whiskers and his friends.

            Thanks for the tip about feeding with moose..you got me thinking…So now, I am going to feed him again and then one more time…He will be up to 2.5 cans of food. I think its good to be able to exchange ideas… I was thinking, maybe hollys digestive tract runs slower and the food that goes in needs a jump start to help it move the food along. There is a condition in humans called leaky gut syndrome. Its about constipation.. And the more we go, that means the toxins don’t build up. Gut flora is really important. many of us don’t have enough of those little critters in our gut. Steve has a product called pet flora…I am going to put moose on it. Dr G is the one who knows so much about these issues.

            You know since going to the holistic md, I no longer have digestive issues. He put me on some suppls and that took care of so many things. I do know that magnesium is good for constipation. But, I wouldn’t know how to give it to cat or if it should be given. All the bulk products work like this, they are supposed to bring all the water to the colon and then that makes the bowel softer. So, I am wondering, how you get more water to hollys colon. That really helps to soften the bowel up.

            As you do the coil and pumpkin,…..if she starts puking and has diarrhea, you will know…I would back down on the coil to 1/4t a day. I use to give 1t once a day of pumpkin. (some vets will tell you to increase to 2t….) I never did.

            I hope this helps…and thank holly for setting moose and me straight. LOL….

          • Ashley October 5, 2014 at 8:06 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Yes, I was actually told that pumpkin is good for both constipation AND diarrhea……….it kind of “normalizes” the stools somehow. I was giving Holly pumpkin for a long time, when someone from a health food store told me NOT to give her pumpkin because it’s for DIARRHEA!!!!!!!!! Well that scared the poop out of me and I stopped………..until I found online that it works for both problems. Still don’t understand it.

            The Restoralax (human laxative) that Holly gets 2x/day actually draws water into the colon/stool. I think the Psyllium is supposed to do that too, as well as help bulk up the stool so she can push it out. The coconut oil is supposed to kind of “grease” the colon up so that she can push the poop out easier. She’s also on Cisapride, which is supposed to make the colon contract, and push the poop forward. So she’s got all the right meds going in………..for some reason, though, she just has trouble pushing it all out. Picture me shaking my head!!!!!!!!

            I sent another email to Steve, explaining my money situation, and asking him if there is one supplement he could recommend I try Holly on, just to get her pooping regularly. I wondered about the Pet Flora, too—but there are so many things to choose from, I’d rather have him tell me what he thinks.

            I’m REALLY SORRY you went through all that trouble with your kitties over the pumpkin. Maybe it was just a bad can??? Thankfully (touch wood), Holly doesn’t get hairballs, or at least she doesn’t puke on a regular basis. She has thrown up a few times, but that was most likely due to constipation the vet said. I’d be scared, too, if I had to go through what you did with all your babies!!!!!!!!!!

            Holly was actually diagnosed with colitis about a year after I adopted her; every time we tried a different food (had to keep switching because she either wouldn’t eat the food after a day or so, or it gave her gas), she had blood on the outside of her stools. She was on Flagyl a few times, too. A couple of times the vet told me to give Holly Pepto Bismol…………and stupidly I did……..until I read that it’s poison for cats!!!!!!!!!!! Threw it out after seeing that!!!!

            I actually did read that cats as well as humans, can have leaky gut syndrome. It’s something to do with not having the proper balance of bacteria in your gut, often caused by antibiotics, crappy food high in carbs/additives/preservatives, and an inappropriate-species diet (like the prescription food they gave me for Holly). From what I read, though, it doesn’t seem to cause constipation…………not saying she doesn’t have gut problems; I’m sure she does. But I didn’t see constipation on the list of what to look for in this disease.

            I actually did see that magnesium can make kitties poop………but you’re right, I wouldn’t know how much to give, either. It also can cause diarrhea in humans if you take too much. I take magnesium every day because it helps with muscle spasms in my back and my jaw. It’s a lot safer than taking muscle relaxants.

            That’s funny, how you can get Whiskers to talk……especially with an audience!!!!

            Just out of curiosity, is it expensive to see a holistic doctor in your area? I was told about an “environmental” doctor near me, but when I called on Friday to find out what the first appointment would be like, the receptionist told me it would be $290!!!!!!!!!!!! OUCH!!!!!!!!!!! My family doctor thinks that, with all the second-hand cigarette smoke and other environmental toxins I’ve been breathing in since I’ve been in this apartment building, all of my health issues might mean I’ve got Multiple Chemical Sensitivity Disorder, but there aren’t many doctors around here who treat that condition, or even know much about it. All regular doctors in Ontario are covered by OHIP, but I never thought about this doctor being a “holistic” doctor………..or that his fees were so expensive. I don’t know how you do it, taking your babies AND yourself to GOOD doctors!!!!!

            I will definitely keep an eye on Holly, and stop the coconut oil if she starts puking. The specialist actually told me she didn’t think there was any reason I SHOULD be giving it to Holly in the first place, but as long as it didn’t affect her appetite, I could continue. Hmmmmmmmm…….and so what’s the reason for her fur being so much softer the last couple of days?!?!??!!?

            I sure hope—-for the both of us—-we can avoid any more emergency vet visits!!!!!!!!!!! I hope you and the babies have a great night, with no puking or diarrhea!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 5, 2014 at 8:30 pm #

            Hi Ruth
            Just thought I would touch base before going to bed. I see a holistic dr and for sure it doesn’t cost what you put down. my insurance covers it. there would be a 20.00 co payment.

            Steve will be gone until 10-10..Hi daughters are holding down the fort. I need to call and find about a product. You could ask dr g about the magnes. She would know too.

            After everything you have been through with holly, there has to be a reason…I went through hell with lily and lost her due to vets who refused to listen to me or dr. G. I didn’t know about VS. And when I found them because of moose, they knew what to do.

            Moose is really doing well. I may have to cut his dose back. His stools look so good, its hard to even believe he was ever sick. My holistic md knew about the bendotine (pardon spelling here in luxolite. He pulled out a sheet explaining all about it and said that is really good. I think all of those people in holistic medicine that treat both animals and human animals really know much more than western med when it comes to treating so many things. We have the fda here. Its a govt agency that is supposed to watch out for the public. They make a warning that suppls haven’t been supported by them etc…not exact wording…Then you listen to all these drug adds on tv and about all the warning…I think for sure I would rather buy suppls from a reputable place than drugs anytime.

            After you get through the urine testing, work out something with dr. G. I am sure it would be cheaper in the long run. She will kow all about the drugs too. You know, she might even know why holly had problems with her urine too. I know when humans get constipated they strain and sometimes from straining, pee will come out. Cats are mammals and so are humans. We share similar things. So maybe the pee stains are from her straining. It would really be nice if you had a vet around there who did holistic med.

            Doc here is very reasonable. Most of my visits have been rechecks. With whiskers he is going to have a ua and that is it. And when I take moose they are going to weigh him and just take a look at him….I am sure they wont believe the change in him…

            take care and I will talk at you tomorrow
            joanne

          • Ashley October 5, 2014 at 9:27 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Oh wow!!!!!!!!! I didn’t even know insurance would cover holistic medicine!!!!!!!!! You are so lucky!!!!! I’m on permanent disability, so I don’t even have insurance; only my meds are covered……but I’ve never heard of holistic doctors being covered around here. And even here in Canada, a lot of the supplements in the health food store have been pulled from the shelves, because the government says they aren’t tested or controlled properly. Yeah, right………….and then they hand out prescription drugs like they were candy, even advertising them on TV……………with a mile long list of side effects. Hello??????? That’s why I never put anything in my mouth until I read the fine print first!!!!!! It’s similar with pet foods, too; the pet food companies push their cheaply-made food on pet owners, discourage us from making raw diets “because of all the salmonella and ecoli”………..yet there are HUNDREDS of bags of pet food recalled every single week due to salmonella or whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like I told Holly’s vet and specialist, I think I can clean the chicken a whole lot better than what the cheap pet food companies do for their food!!!!!!!!!!! They don’t want us using raw diets because it cuts into their profit margins. Plus they’d have to admit they aren’t doing a very good job of keeping pets healthy!!!!! At least with a raw, homemade diet, I know none of the ingredients comes from China……….I don’t know if you had kitties back in 2007, but that’s when all the commercial pet food was poisoned with melamine from China. Ashley was actually eating some of the affected food at the time, but thankfully she didn’t get sick…………..unless that was the beginning of the end for her.

            I’ve heard of the bentonite clay, but only recently. It’s actually in the toothpaste I use now (Earthpaste). I had a bad reaction to a new Colgate sensitive toothpaste my dentist gave me (everything tasted like soap—all my food, water, EVERYTHING); when I finally got smart and read the ingredients, I also noticed it contains glycerine—when I’ve used glycerine soap in the past, it dried my hands out so bad that the skin cracked. Gee, now I know why my mouth was always so dry!!!!!!!!!!!! I did a lot of research, and finally found this company’s toothpaste, and asked if they’d send me some samples……..which they did. I had a much better experience than with the Colgate, so I bought one of each flavour from a website in Canada. I still had problems with sensitivity, though, so after some more research, I decided to add coconut oil on my brush with the toothpaste. Problem solved!!!!!!!!! Not only that, the coconut oil whitened my teeth!!!!!!! My dental hygienist is gonna flip the next time she sees me (usually my meds turn my teeth yellow).

            Yeah, I really wish there was a holistic vet nearby here………….and one that wasn’t so expensive. In all of Scarborough, though (considered the eastern part of Toronto), there are only two holistic vets…………..neither one of them close enough to go to on the bus. Whenever I take Holly to the vet, I put her in her carrier (24″ long), and put her carrier on top of my shopping cart/bundle buggy that I use for groceries. If I didn’t have that shopping cart, I’d never get Holly to the vet’s office—Holly plus her carrier are too heavy for my wrists to manage. I used to have a smaller, material carrier—like you see when people bring animals on airplanes and put them under the seats—but Holly got too big for it to be comfortable. It took a lot of searching, when I finally found this hard-sided carrier at PetSmart. I made her a bed (denim material and lots of polyester stuffing), since the materials used in the pet store beds bothered my asthma, and a pretty pillow case to top it off. Now that she has a bigger carrier, and a comfy/soft bed, I’ve actually walked her to the vet’s office during the summer (about 45 minutes each way); it’s just about the same amount of time as I’d spend waiting for and travelling on two buses………..but there isn’t a crowd of people driving me nuts!!!!! Plus Holly gets some fresh air. I’ll have to take the bus during the winter, though—too cold for her, plus our sidewalks are never plowed well enough to push the heavy shopping cart.

            I’m not sure if the pee stains are from Holly straining to poop. They usually happen when she’s sleeping, either in one of her beds or on mine. I don’t know too much about cat anatomy, but I’m thinking maybe with her colon being too full, it presses down on her bladder somehow, and when she’s relaxed, it just leaks a little. But I’m not a vet, so I could be totally off the mark!!!!! Even when she finally does poop (on her own), she doesn’t seem like she’s straining, and her stools have never been really hard. Even though the specialist says Holly doesn’t have megacolon yet, I’m wondering if she really does, and if that’s the reason her colon isn’t working properly. Who knows!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe she just needs some Pet Flora to get things all healed up in her gut. She HAS been on antibiotics quite a bit, so it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s the cause (or part of it).

            You’ve got to let me know what the vets think about Moose when they see him again!!!!!!! I’m even getting excited FOR you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fingers are crossed that Moose doesn’t puke tonight!!!

            Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 6, 2014 at 10:44 am #

            hi ruth
            I forgot to mention about spur green I found it on Dr. Beckers site. It is great for the coats.

            anti biot can destroy a cats gut. And that could be part of the problem. I was antib poisoned in texas and to this day, I can never take them orally. I got c diff from them. I read how they destroy the gi tract.

            that could be one of her problems…there is no good bacteria to help her digest food. I told you I knew a lady who’s cat had mega colon and there was a surgery they did for the cat. I didn’t know that they could do that.

            Things with drugs etc never show up on ultra sounds etc…So unless you have a vet who is willing to think outside of the box, you get that closed minded crap. It really irks me about loosing lily to ibd…esp now because I realized had I known about vs about then, she would be here today. I live with this guilt and it will haunt me forever. But like my hubby says hind sight is always perfect….

            I think so many problems all of us are having is because of the lack of knowledge and the pushing of drugs. See Ruth, suppls cut into drug profits. And for sure we cant have that.

            If you are interested and I don’t know if your insurance would pay or not, I do know that my holistic md does phone consults outside of Utah. If you want I can give you his number and you can call him…I don’t know if he goes outside of the USA…I do know that people come from all over to go to him. But again, I don’t know if you could even order his suppls because you are in Canada…Let me know…

            Today I called VS about whiskers product and his upcoming ua…I wrote to dr g too. Moose has no puke for two days. She agreed with vs about keep him on the products until he is stabilized. VS asked me today about her because they said they have a number of people who call looking for a holistic vet cause they don’t know of any in their area. See if she will work with you again per suppls etc. Really you know a lot, but you need someone with her expertise to guide you per products. And the nice thing about steves products, they say for pets…Does Canada have laws against pet suppls too.

            I cant wait to show moose off at docs. I hope he has gained more than a few ozs… I have whiskers and Mario sleeping right beside my chair right now. Its just so cute to see them… There are so many rewards to seeing our kids feeling good.

            I agree with you per raw food. The basis is returning our animals back to their natural states. You know in texas, I had a vet tell me My cats were domicated and raw was bad. I told her she was close minded and when it came to diet, dr g would decide. You know when I had the cats eating wysong when I was in the process of switching over, I asked the t vets if they would write an rX for food cause dr g was out of town. Get This…they typed up a release along with the rX and sent it to wyong releasing them of any wrong doing that could occur due to wyong food. I called wyong and they were just laughing…I said I should be more concerned about the S food from the vet. In all their years in business, they had never seen anything like this.

            So as you can see, vets don’t learn much about nutrition in school. And just who gives all the money to vet schools. why of course….those who control the market…The last thing they want is for any of us to create a mess for them.

            Joanne

          • Ashley October 6, 2014 at 1:10 pm #

            Hi Again, Joanne,

            After I sent my last email to you, I went back to my Inbox and found an email from Steve; he suggested I try the Pet Flora and Arabinogalactan………so I went for it. And the shipping to Canada is only a couple more dollars than to the US. I still have to pay for the exchange on the dollar, but hopefully the supplements work for Holly, and it will lead to fewer vet visits!!!!!!!! Thank you SO VERY MUCH for telling me about VS……………my fingers are crossed that Holly’s problems will soon be a thing of the past!!!!!!

            Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 6, 2014 at 7:04 pm #

            hi Ruth

            wow I will keep my fingers crossed too. I think between steve and dr. g, hollys problems could be become a thing of the past. And then it would smooth sailing.

            I sent dr g and email today updating her about moose. She even said exactly the same thing as steve as far as keeping moose on the same dosage for now. And when I started with vs, she agreed with him per testing and all of it.

            whatever instructions he suggest, do it…and you know what, they encourage us to call them and email them with progress reports. I believe these people really have our best interests at heart.

            Sorry this post is so late. earlier today I was working on it. I noticed whiskers in the box and then nothing coming out. I ran him over to back vet. They felt his bladder and his gi tract to make sure he wasn’t blocked at either end. He was ok. I decided not to do subq fluids tonight and will let doc know why. Just in case, you know… Anyway tomorrow Is the big day for mooses weigh in.

            so glad you are going to try some products. I will be thinking of you

          • Ashley October 6, 2014 at 7:34 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Yikes…………I’m glad Whiskers didn’t have any blockages!!!!!!! It’s so scary when we have to worry so much about our babies, especially since they can’t tell us what’s wrong!!!!!!!!!!

            Steve told me that there would be directions for the supplements in the box, but I was free to email him if I had any more questions or concerns. Yup, I do agree that they seem to really care about all the pets!!!!

            I hope Moose’s appointment tomorrow goes AWESOME!!!!!! From what you’ve been telling me, I’m sure there will be NO PROBLEMS!!!!!! And hopefully Whiskers will be okay, too; not giving him the subq fluids was a smart idea. I might have done the opposite, to get him to pee……..but if he can’t for some reason, yup, you were very smart!!!!!!

            Thank you SO VERY MUCH for all your support and encouragement with Holly’s ongoing problems. You’re the first person I’ve talked to who really understands!!!!!!! Guess you have to have sick kitties to get to this stress level!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope you and all the babies have a good night……..and my fingers are crossed for Moose and Whiskers tomorrow!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 7, 2014 at 10:09 am #

            hi Ruth

            well here we go..with moose he has gained 8 oz in less than a month. Doc said that is wonderful She is considering carrying his line.. She is amazed. His ears are still chapped, but all of that happened before he went on the products and I changed the food. She gave me some sab to put on his ears. She asked about thyroid, and I said we did the tests in about march….that was good. So cats gain slower than dogs. His weight now is 9.15 pounds. He is one ounce shy of 10 pounds. There was no puking today.

            whiskers is a different problem. Doc had me write to dr g for her review. I don’t know if he will go on uro cleanse or not. doc said it would be good for urinary flora…however, he needs an acidifier. He is fulled with crystals and the s/diet should help to get rid of them. his ph before was 9 and that is horrible…alkaline. So, I wrote down everything that doc asked me to send to dr g. There are a number of combinations that she might suggest. We have to wait until his test results are available depending when he decides to pee.

            I know how tough it is taking care of sick kitties, but I will tell you this, when you get people who know and aren’t closed minded, it makes for a lot more choices. I said to doc today, wouldn’t it be wonderful, it you could treat all the kitties in your practice who have ibd and didn’t have to put any of them down. She sigh and said yes…it would be. I said to her, you wouldn’t have believed me if you hadn’t seen the results with your own eyes. She agreed and even my hubby wouldn’t have believed any of this if he hadn’t lived with moose too.

            So when steve says to email and keep in touch he means it. And you know you can always call them too. I would just love to see the looks on the closed minded vets up there after using steves products.

            joanne

          • Ashley October 7, 2014 at 11:09 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            That’s AWESOME NEWS about Moose gaining so much weight in just a month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All your hard work (and his!!!) paid off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I’m glad he didn’t puke any more, too!!!!!!!!!!!! You said he’s almost ten pounds—how much is he supposed to weigh? I thought ten pounds was a good number—that’s what Holly is trying to get down to.

            I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOO SORRY bout Whiskers, though!!!!!!!!!!! You knew he had a problem last night, and you were right!!!! How did they get the test results for the crystals so fast??? Holly’s tests normally take 5 days to come back!!!!! I must be going to the wrong vet!!!!!!!!!!! You said Whiskers needs an acidifier—would Cranimals (Cranberry powder) help http://cranimal.com/original.html ??? That’s what I’ve got Holly on to (hopefully) prevent any more uti’s and crystals. She hasn’t had any crystals since February—but that could have been the S/0 food that cleaned her out. You said it depends on when Whiskers decides to pee—doesn’t your vet collect the urine using a needle through the bladder wall? I was told that was the only way to get a “clean” sample. Is Whiskers still at the vet, or were you able to bring him home??? Poor baby………………give him a hug for me!!!!!!

            I do wish that more vets would “think outside the box”, instead of just relying on prescription crap and antibiotics. If PEOPLE can use “natural” supplements to heal their bodies, why can’t pets?!?!?!?? I will definitely keep Steve informed about how Holly is doing on the supplements, and if I have questions, I won’t be afraid to ask. It will be a whole different experience for me………..I’m often afraid to ask the vet questions, because I think I’m bugging her too much………………I’ve got TOO MANY questions!!!!!!!!! I just hope the supplements work, and Holly starts feeling better soon. According to the tracking info, the package got to ALBUQUERQUE, NM at 12:55 this morning. No idea where that is!!!!!!

            You’ve been doing an AWESOME JOB with all your babies…………heck, just keeping their schedules straight would give me a headache!!!!!!!!!! But you’ve done it, and the doc agrees you’ve done a wonderful job!!!!!!!!!!!! You should be proud of yourself (AND Moose!!!!!!!!). For Moose’s chapped ears, what about trying coconut oil? I actually used a little on Holly’s fur today because the dandruff is starting to come back (the dry food, I’m sure!!!!). She looked like a greased furball, but she smelled WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!

            I have to get to the Post Office now before the mail goes out for tonight. I hope you have a wonderful night, Joanne………….and tell Whiskers that Holly says to PEE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joannne October 7, 2014 at 12:40 pm #

            hi Ruth
            Thank you for the kind words…you are right, when others know what its like to take care fo sick cats, it really means a lot to let someone know.

            Whiskers got sick in about 2011 with crystals. Doc tried a lot of things, but nothing worked. They generally try a few things before having to commit the cat to surgery. He had to be castrated in order to open his pee hole and allow for crystals to pass through. He was blocked and would have died. So, she referred me to an excellent vet that does surgeries on her clients cats. I was so scared. I checked the box even after the surgery for pee. I tried him on other foods besides urinary. He started bleeding with uti… Dr G put him on a number of things to acidify the urine etc. I did miss the time doing his suppls when we were moving. Something just told me to take him for a ua. And that is when I found out for sure.

            Doc can do a ua in her office. She can also look under her scope for crystals. She doenst take urine using a needle. Its painful.. She might squeeze if she can feel urine in him…but whiskers is really high strung…If I am not there its worse. Its just easier to let him stay there until he decides to go. I wrote to Dr. G. and I just let Doc know her recommendations. I cant tell you how nice it is that both of these doctors work so well together for the sake of whiskers. But until he pees, they cant do anything. Whiskers is probably going to be on maint plan forever. And he will probably be on urinary diet too.

            Moose should weigh in at about 15 pounds. He can carry the weight. He is a big cat, and every little bit he puts on, helps. right now he is eating two and 1/2 cans of wellness turkey and duck. that is over 400 calories a day. but he is really underweight now from everything.. Doc said that weight gain in less than a month is great. She gave me bagbond for his ears. Something that has vit e in it for his skin etc. His coat is looking so much better. She cleaned out his ears, but they didn’t look bad.

            I wont know anything about whiskers now until he pees. I am so happy about moose. And you know how you keep logs on Holly. Steve liked me doing that. I kept tract about how much I fed and suppls etc. I kept tract of times fed and times he would go. I described the texture too. So after you feed her, note it…When you see her in the box note if she strains. how many hours after you feed does she go.. Moose likes his food soupy….I put a little bit of water on his food. I got a bretta filter. had it for years. I feel it up from the tap and it filters… anyway, If you could get holly to eat the food with even 1t of water in it, that would be more than without it. then you could increase etc… maybe you have already done that too.

            I coil has vit e in it, it probably would be good for coat. I would mail my logs to steve every few days and when I wanted a response to something I would use ******to indicate a response. I would let him know at the beginning of the email.. This weekend, I will send him an email and let him know about moose. I will also let him know that Dr G wants him to stay put for awhile on the product to stabilize…. And I am sure he will agree.

            Joanne

            Lets get holly feeling good now. and you are not alone. you have a staff of people working for holly now too. and me too.

          • Ashley October 7, 2014 at 1:31 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Oh, no……….poor Whiskers!!!!!!!!!!!! And poor YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cry every single time I have to leave Holly at the vet’s office………even if it’s just for a couple of hours to do an enema. I feel like I’m abandoning her. I sure hope Whiskers pees soon, so you can get him home again!!!!!!!!! About the needle in the bladder………….the vet told me that cats don’t feel the needle because it’s so small; are you telling me that my vet lied to me…….again??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?! To heck with getting Holly rechecked for a UTI…………if she’s peeing, she’s not getting any more needles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man, I’m MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO WONDER she poops in her carrier after every needle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would too!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I sure hope Dr. G and your vet can figure out how to get Whiskers feeling better again!!!!!!!! Poor boy!!!!!!!! And to be turned into a girl, too………yikes!!!!!!!!!!

            Moose is eating 2 1/2 cans of food a day?!?!?!?! Holy smokes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I was feeding Holly Hound and Gatos canned food, she only got 1/2 can per day…………and even then we had struggles with her weight!!!!!!! I’m glad that he’s eating, though, and not puking up his food.

            Yes, I record EVERYTHING I give/do for Holly, and what’s in her litter box, and all the times. If I didn’t, I’d be scratching my head wondering if I gave her her meds or food or whatever. My memory is so bad, I can’t even tell you what I ate yesterday!!!!!!!!! So Holly’s diary sits right beside my living room chair, and I record her daily events. It also helps when I take Holly to the vet, too, because I can look back and say “this is what I did, for how long, and what happened”……………and they can’t say “are you sure you did that?”, ’cause it’s written down!!!!!!!!!

            Holly doesn’t particularly “like” her food soupy……….but she tolerates it. I have to give her extra water, 1) because she doesn’t drink any on her own; and 2) because if I didn’t, the Psyllium would cause blockages………..and she doesn’t need any more enemas. So yeah, Holly’s raw food gets about 1/4 cup of water added to it. With all the dry supplements I add, it kind of evens it out a little, so it’s not TOTALLY watered down. But still, she’d prefer just to eat the food and not the water………….but I’m the boss of her diet right now!!!!!!!!!!!! She’s the boss in everything else!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I REALLY DO THANK YOU, Joanne, for the continued support…………and friendship!!!!!!!!!! It’s so nice to talk to someone who’s not just been there, but who also understands that having a sick kitty is VERY stressful!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s so nice to be able to email each other like this………..I’m SO GLAD I found you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope Whiskers pees soon, so you can have him home again………….Holly and I are both sending lots of good wishes—for Whiskers AND Moose!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 7, 2014 at 6:27 pm #

            hi Ruth

            back at you that I found you too. we have a lot in common when it comes to sick kitties. Ok, here is the deal with whiskers. He peed and got to come home. Doc called me with the good news. No crystals ph 6. But, his lining is irriated inflamed.. So she said to put him on cd or royal canin…And then he will stay on uro max. Then she said she would send everything to dr g. Well, I wrote dr g and told her everything include that doc would send reports. so dr g said fine with food and uro max. for now she wants me to add d mannose back in to the mix. Then next week, she will decide about adding the vs product in and probably deleting out the damannose I use separately. I have to finish up his subq fluids.

            I read and have heard from many a vet that the needle can get blood into the urine. I remember one time them doing that with one of my other kitties. I switched vets and they said never let them do it. I have never seen doc gather urine with a needle. Sometimes if a cat has urine in the bladder, she will squeeze and it will come out. Her approach is too give subq fluids and wait and let the cat pee.

            Your vets sound like the hillbillies I had in texas. After lily died,Jim went in there and told them what he thought of them. Allopath vets and doctors seem to practice quite similar. I am so glad I didn’t put moose through all those tests.

            when you get a good combination of vets working together, it really does help. Steve is holistic and doc does a lot of holistic too. however, with having dr g, doc really likes to refer to her because she knows so much.

            I really think we can get our babies well again. whiskers has to go back in two to three months for another check.

            However I can support you, I will… Poor whiskers has to eat that rx crap too.

          • Ashley October 7, 2014 at 7:00 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I’m SO GLAD that Whiskers is home again………..I was just thinking of writing to ask how he was when your email showed up!!!!! I’m sorry his inflammation is bad, AND that he has to go back on prescription crap……….but the ph 6—isn’t that a good number?

            Holy crap, I didn’t know that about the needles in the bladder!!!!!!!!!!!! SHIT, the vets assured me it was a SAFE procedure, and I’ve been in the office lots of times while other pets are having it done!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jeepers, I’m sick and tired of being lied to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry—I don’t mean to rant and rave, but this is the last straw!!!!!!!!!!!! Holly has had this test at least SIX times since February………….and never had urinary problems before that. Makes me wonder if they screwed up somehow, and now can’t fix whatever that is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I’ve read about D manose—and I’ve asked my vet several times if Holly could be on a medicine rather than a prescription food; she always told me there wasn’t one. Another lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any chance I can borrow Jim for a few minutes to yell at my vets?!?!?!?!?!?!? I’m glad you didn’t put Moose through any of those tests, too!!!!!!!!!

            You know, I never had a bad word to say about Holly’s vets……..until they wouldn’t support my decision to take her off the prescription food. It’s been going downhill from there. Normally they’re even checking up on Holly to see how she’s doing…………haven’t heard from them since Holly’s primary vet told me to stop feeding her food I found on websites, and stop listening to people in the pet food stores. A few days after that is when she told me to take Holly to see a specialist. That was almost three weeks ago. Hmmmmmmmm…….maybe they found this blog and have been reading my comments!!!!!!!!!!! Yup, I’m paranoid!!!!!!!!!!!! I just wish the holistic vets around here weren’t so expensive, and I’d switch. I also wish there were more of them—so I’d have more of a selection. Lets just hope Steve’s supplements help Holly heal, so she won’t need any more vet visits!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Speaking of Steve’s supplements, I looked up on the map where New Mexico is…………YIKES, that’s a long way for the supplements to travel!!!!! I guess it will be a while before I get them, especially if they have to go through customs (I’ve had packages stuck at the border for two weeks or more!!!!!!!). I’ll have to keep Holly healthy on my own until then.

            Thank you SO MUCH for supporting me through Holly’s health issues; I wish I could do more to help YOU………..but I don’t know half as much as you do (YET!!!!). I’ll always be here to listen, though……….even if it’s not about kitty problems!!!!! I agree, we do seem to have a lot in common!!!!!!

            I hope all your kitties AND you and Jim have a good night…………with no litter box problems or puking!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 7, 2014 at 8:06 pm #

            hi Ruth

            I know first hand about how closed minded allopath vets can be. I had horrible experiences with them.. When whiskers got rodent ulcer the first, I let the vet scare that sh@@ out of me. I let him give him a steroid. I got to thinking about it and contacted Dr. G. Well she said one steroid shot wouldn’t hurt him and would be ok. I took whiskers back a month later. Dr. G had put him on the suppls…Well this jerk vet says, ah the ulcer has cleared up because of the steroid. I thought screw you…. Well, guess what, it came back. So I took him back so he could see his wonderful drug had stopped working. He comes in and gives whiskers another shot without my ok. I said to him, who told you to do that. He said he was treating the cat. I said no, you are not. Dr. G is in charge not you. I refused to pay for the shot. I was so mad, I went home and called her…She was really nice to me. She told me how to detox him. Well, she put whiskers on a few suppls and the ulcer never came back again. Another vet at the same place said she had a great product and would like to try it out..So Dr. G approved it and yes it worked. I have had three vets ask what did she do. So I called that vet in texas and found out what product they had used in addition to what she put whiskers on.

            Let me tell you, when they found out I had put my cats on raw, I thought sh@@ would hit the fan. They tried to scare me with so much bs. I let dr g know. I think we both a good laugh. Every homeopath remedy she used, they contradicted…No the one who had asked about that other product. The thing here is that these guys just cant understand a world of curing unless it involves drugs. Doc is impressed with VS products after seeing moose. There is no more bloating either. Just think of this. no more having to put cats down with ibd…

            So when you can afford it, I would ask dr g if you can do an email consult with her because of funds etc… And then when you have to go to the vet there, be prepared for anything.

            I have learned after all that I have been through, one has to stand up to the bully health industry.

          • Ashley October 7, 2014 at 8:51 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I know you’ve mentioned “rodent ulcer” before—what is that exactly? I’ve never heard of it until you told me about Whiskers. How did he get it?

            I can’t believe the vet gave Whiskers a steroid shot without your okay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man, I would have called whoever it is that governs the vets (if that’s even a reality!!!!)!!!!!!!!!!!!! At least at Holly’s vet, they write out a treatment plan, complete with estimated costs, before treating her. I’m glad you had the guts to walk out without paying for the shot (I’m not sure I would have been that brave)!!!!!!!!!!

            I might have to take Holly back to the vet after all. She keeps ending up with a stinky behind. For the last month, I kept thinking she was leaking urine, but tonight it smells more like anal glands, or even the mucous from her colon (she’s had a lot of mucous on her stools ever since she started the raw diet). She’s had her anal glands examined, though, and I was told they were clear, so I have no idea what to think. My stomach is in knots, thinking she might need another urinalysis done, after what you told me about the needles. I keep wiping Holly’s bum with baby wipes and “Earthbath” foam leave-in shampoo; it stays clean for a little while, but the stink keeps coming back, and her fur all around her pee and bum holes are wet. Not sure if that’s because whatever it is keeps running onto her fur, or if she’s smearing it when she sits on her bum. Soooooooooooooooooooo confusing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I REALLY wish Holly could talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Yup, I’ve been read the riot act for putting Holly on raw food, too…………except for ONE vet—Holly’s primary vet was away, so I got to see this newer vet (graduated this year) when Holly had her last urinary tract infection; she seemed kind of shocked when I told her I was feeding Holly raw food, but her MAIN concern was that I was handling the food safely and not exposing MYSELF to any salmonella!!!!!!!!!!!!! Part of me wishes I had the guts to switch vets even within the office………….but I know that would cause too much tension—for me AND the vet!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She’s the one who told me (after Holly pooped in her carrier) that Holly’s poop looked PERFECT—even after not pooping for five days.

            I can only imagine what the vets are going to say/think when they hear I’ve got Holly on Steve’s supplements!!!!!!!! I’m thinking of not telling them anything until I make sure it’s going to help……………and then, like you did with Moose, show them the results!!!!!!!!! I hate being dishonest with them (even though it’s only by omission), but I’m so tired of fighting all the time, and I’m tired of all the lectures, too. I may not have all the facts correct, but at least I’m TRYING to help my baby, rather than just pushing drugs and cheap crappy food into her. I keep wondering, what the heck did I take Holly to the specialist for………….all she did was take an x-ray, which was normal, and then (after talking to Holly’s primary vet) told me to stop feeding her a raw diet and go back on prescription junk (Holly’s primary vet told the specialist “I assumed Holly was on the Cisapride and Restoralax since February”—even though she darn well knows I was able to stop the meds once the prescription diet kicked in; so basically, she made me look like a liar and an idiot, and after that I lost all credibility in the specialist’s eyes). If the prescription diet actually had some meat in it, and some healthy ingredients, AND no corn, I wouldn’t be so angry and so bent on disobeying the vet’s orders; however, we both know what’s in (or not in) the junk food, and so do the vets—-’cause I showed them!!!!!!!!!! I told both of them, you can add vitamins to a bag of potato chips, that still doesn’t make it a balanced, nutritious, healthy diet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What did I spend all that money for??? I thought the specialist was supposed to tell me WHY Holly wasn’t pooping, what was causing the colon not to push it out—especially with all the meds she’s on. Nope—more lectures and prescription diet………….or else Holly will need surgery. Not on your life!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I’ll see how Holly is tomorrow, and decide then whether I’m going to take her back to the vet; it’s not like they’ve done anything for her the last three times I took her for this same problem (except to question me repeatedly about what kind of a smell was on her bum). Stupid me, I cleaned her up for the vet visit (didn’t want them to think I wasn’t taking good care of her); I should have left the stink on the fur for them to smell!!!!!!!!!!! Next time…………..!!! I have an appointment tomorrow afternoon, so if I take her in, it will have to be in the evening.

            Do you get your D-Mannose from the vet’s office, or from a health food store? Or does Steve sell it? I’m wondering if that would help Holly, either prevent or clear up what the antibiotics missed (since she kept throwing up after each dose of antibiotics, the specialist told me to stop giving them to her, and Holly’s last urine test at the specialist’s office was normal………….but she told me it could be because Holly was treated for three days with the antibiotics—so she still might have an infection. After all this research, and all the experience we’ve had with sick kitties, I think we BOTH deserve a degree in veterinary medicine!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope Whiskers and Moose have a good, uneventful night………….and you and Jim have a good sleep!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 8, 2014 at 10:14 am #

            hi Ruth
            you would know if holly had rodent ulcer, its a big sore in the mouth…you would see blood.

            I thought about what you said about the urine thing. Doc always told me to wipe up in the back. That way you don’t get pooh in the pee hole.

            whiskers has mucus in his lining of his bladder. Doc believes it was brought on from the crystals. Right now both she and dr gardner are putting together a plan. I have whiskers on urox max for acidifier… cd crap food. Now dr g is having me add the damannose in…You buy it from a place like the vit shoppe or health store. I give whiskers 1/4t daily. Dr G wants me to hold onto the vs product… its is about 60% d mannoses according to daughter.

            antibiot. can destroy the gi tract. Whenver you give them always give probiot. I know you are waiting on the products from steve. I would write him an email and tell him about the urine and how they are testing. Does holly go in her box a lot and nothing comes out. A ua should give you the ph factor. they can smear a sample of urine from the ua and look for cyrstals in their office. This test is in house. Doc charges around 40.00 for it. There has to be a reason for the mucus…they can tell if the glands need to be expressed or are infected. they go to school to learn. I put whiskers and Mario on cq10 10mg. I break open their caps.

            I think by now, I would be totally frustrated with them. They are good to run tests. But when it comes to preventative etc, this is where I find someone like Dr G must more knowledgeable. I would have them shave the fur off hollys behind to keep that whole area cleaner…doc did that with whiskers and even moose who is short hair. It just stunk and even now, phoop will stick on him…I am having to redo two of his feedings to see if this helps with puking. going to give him his vs products before bed last feeding. and then going to not give the products per late afternoon feed. Always tho, I keep his feedings the same…He is getting 2.5 cans of food. Ibreak them down in 1/2 per each feeding with other suppls too.

            I hope this helps…But when it comes to dmannos you want to be careful not to overdo it. I would talk to steve…write him an email and explain it out to him.

            If she is straining to go phoop, I am wondering it this is putting pressure on her urinary tract.

          • Ashley October 8, 2014 at 1:56 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That rodent ulcer sounds HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Poor kitty!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Yes, I was told the same thing about wiping Holly’s bum……….always bottom to top.

            I actually found out that the health food store carries D-Mannose, but they are all out of it at the moment…………so I’m going to try another store tomorrow (it’s way too far to go on a crowded bus tonight).

            I sent an email to the vet, telling them what’s happening with Holly, and asked if I should bring her in. I’m not thrilled to think I might have to, but if she’s in pain, I don’t want to prolong it. I would have called, but they are always super-busy at this time of day (and I just got home). I also asked her if Holly could try D-Mannose instead of antibiotics………..something tells me the answer is gonna be HECK NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I talked to my therapist’s secretary today (she’s had cats all her life), and she told me that all of her cats have had their urine tested by inserting a needle into the bladder. It’s either that, or they catheterize the pets…………….not fun either!!!!!! She’s never heard of the way your vet gets urine samples. So I’ve got no idea what to think!!!!!!!!

            The last time Holly had a urine test done (at the ER hospital, with the specialist), her ph level was fine; same with the one before it. She doesn’t seem to strain when she’s in the litter box (not that she would let me see, anyway); and she never goes in multiple times without anything coming out. It’s just decreased in amount since she’s been on part dry food, even with the subq fluids.

            Even when she poops—she only goes in once, and doesn’t seem to strain or cry out. However, she’s been slightly “incontinent”, dropping little poop balls throughout the apartment or in her beds, and not noticing. The specialist told me it likely means that that is when her colon is contracting, and her poop is right at the end so it just drops out. I don’t get it, but she told me not to worry. As long as she’s having normal sized poops in the litter box, that’s what we’re aiming for.

            Holly actually did get her fur shaved through the summer; I couldn’t afford it the last two months, though, so I’ve been trimming it with scissors myself. Plus, I think the last shave she got, the technician got a bit too close to the skin, or the shaver burner her—there was a mark on the underside of her tail when we got home, and Holly was trying like crazy to get at it……………she couldn’t reach, so she kept biting her legs instead. It was HORRIBLE to watch!!!!!!!!!!!!! After that is when I started cutting the hair myself. I can’t get as close as a shaver, though, and I’d be afraid to try shaving her myself. But yes, I do keep the fur on her back end very short. I think part of her problem is that she’s too big to reach her back end and clean it herself; I’m sure that would help a great deal with the smell if she could get passed her big belly!!!!!!!!!!

            Yes, I AM frustrated with the vets………..but I’ve got to play nice or find a new place to take Holly. She’s been through so much already, I’d hate to look for a new doc.

            I don’t think Holly is straining to poop………..but I wonder if, by not pooping every day, if her colon is pressing against her bladder somehow (I don’t know cat anatomy, so I have no idea!!!!). It could also be due to her weight, as well. Gee, Moose has to gain weight………I should send him some of Holly’s—free of charge!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Thanks SO VERY MUCH, Joanne, for all the ideas. Hopefully Holly’s vet says just to monitor Holly at home, and not bring her in yet. It’s too cold to take her out, anyway!!!!!!!!! I need to make her a fleece jacket to wear to the vet’s in the winter……..standing at the bus stop can get pretty chilly (I always have her carrier covered with fleece blankets, though, to keep out the wind and as much cold as possible); a kitty jacket would help, though.

            I’m sorry Whiskers has to be on crap food again (especially HILLS—I don’t trust them anymore!!!!!!!!!!!)!!!!!!! I’m glad your vet and Dr. G are working on a plan, though; I know that’s a relief for you!!!!

            I thought Moose wasn’t puking anymore? Or did I miss some info somewhere along the line? How do you manage your stress level with two sick kitties at the same time??????? Just worrying about Holly is driving me CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t know how you do it!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Well, I’ve got to go for now……..I’m still freezing from being outside (I didn’t dress warm enough for the weather), and I need some supper. Take care, ’cause I care, and I’ll let you know what/if anything the vet has to say.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 8, 2014 at 8:04 pm #

            Hi Ruth

            I feel like I am on a roller coaster at times. I am going to try a different approach with moose. I called vs and they suggested I reverse the afternoon feeding where I give their products to the nighttime feeding where I wasn’t giving the suppls. So that is what I did tonight. I don’t know why he pukes…I think it might be because his tummy gets empty… He goes good for awhile then pukes. I would be dead tire if I stayed up all night watching him.

            you said that holly had mucus in her pee. I went online and found this link
            http://helpmycat.com/diagnosis.php?dname=1476

            I searched cat has mucus in pee.

            When whiskers got sick and couldn’t pee, I thought I am glad I caught it, but just the thought of him not being able to for anytime, brought me to tears. Doc called me and said he could die. She got him catherized and on some meds. He came home and I watched him like a hawk. Nothing worked for the time to get him better. Finally at er with docs approval, they took a syringe (needle) and drew out blood and blood and blood. They watched through an ultra sound. Well it was decided he would have the surgery..That was it. All these guys here did everything they could. But whiskers just had to have a new way to pee.

            When I got him home, I had to take care of him. Again I watched him like a hawk calling doc about everything. She knew I was scared. She said I had to break from that role. She was so great to work with. Whiskers really started coming around. I did try some other foods with him,but that lead to bleeding. So we stopped. Doc put him on homoepath remedies too. She consulted with Dr. g. It was wonderful having two people I respect so much work together for my kitty. then whiskers had a follow up where they took the stiches out of him. The vet who did his surgery had bonded to him. He just adored him. Well the staff at the pet hospital all commented on him. He gave everyone hell. He really is quite charming when he wants something. I drove to the hospital everyday and sat right in front of his cage with him.

            It has taken me years to learn to deal with my cats. At one point, I lived in fear of them getting sick. I have lost 6 cats…but loosing lily really hurt because looking back now, had I known about vs I could have saved her. My vets do understand why I react like I do.

            When Mario swallowed that toy off his scratching post. I knew something was wrong. But none of the vets thought anything on those lines. I took him to the er and that doctor out there faxed messages to both vets…We were living in another suburb and had a back up vet there. Doc was still our main vet….I took him in on Monday morning…The vet was so mad at himself for not doing an xray and doing blood work. He did the xray and asked me to look at it. I knew what it was. So he did surgery. They cut him open first and then they have to make an incession and cut his intestine open in two places to get the thing out. Then he gets sown up. Well, I was a basket case by then. The vet said let him stay here and we will take care of him since you are too upset to think about this…normally they let them go home after a couple of days. Mario stayed longer. Then they sent meds and food home. So I had a follow up. I had been told he would probably develop a slight infections. So they did some blood work and they were right on…They showed me the blood count. So I did everything they told me to do and he got well.

            I went through hell with ozzie too. He got sick and couldn’t pee. It was a mucus plug…not crystals. He has been fine ever since. On occasion, one of my cats will get a bladder infection. So because they don’t all live together, I try to spend time just watching them.

            I really try not to panic….and just keep calm. But there are times. and when I get upset, it makes it worse on them. I use the net a lot to find out or look for symptoms. As long as holly is going, that is a great sign. Generally female cats don’t block because they have bigger pee holes. (it can happen). They run tests. and if those tests are coming back negative, it has to be physical problem… I watched whiskers when he would go in the box. He would try and try. and little bits would come out. then nothing, but blood…It really important to keep the cats urine around 6…When it gets alkaline , problems begin. And you said you had xrays and ultra sound etc done..Surely those vets should be able to find out what is wrong.

            I don’t know anything about mega colon. Google up mega colon and see what the symptoms are. surely they would know. Hell they went to school. After texas, I learned what I didn’t like about vets. When I met doc, she was everything I had hoped to find in a vet. She is kind and compassionate and owns cats too. She has a fund and we all dominate to it so that others can afford care. When I went through all that hell with whiskers, she took money out of the fund for me too.

            Let me know what you find out.

          • Ashley October 8, 2014 at 9:40 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            No, sorry for the mix-up—I didn’t mean Holly had mucous in her pee; I think it’s coming from her bum. Whenever she’s pooped since being the raw diet, her poop is surrounded by a layer of mucous, and I’m wondering if that is what is making her fur stink back there. I never see it coming out; and for the first few weeks it SMELLED like pee……….but the last few days it smells worse than that. Not quite like poop, but not pee either. I don’t know………maybe my sense of smell is messed up from breathing in all the marijuana and cigarette smoke!!!!! But Holly’s fur is definitely getting wet from SOMETHING stinky!!! Thank you for looking up that link for me. I looked at the symptoms, and Holly’s doesn’t really fit them. There’s no blood (that I can see), when she goes to the litter box she always pees or poops (no going to the box and not producing anything), and she doesn’t cry when she pees or poops. And her urine tests were normal the last time……..but that could be because she had three days of antibiotics right before the test (I had to stop them because she puked after each tablet). She DOES look like she’s desperately trying to reach her bum area at times, but her belly is in the way, so she ends up just licking her legs a lot instead. I’m not sure if she’s itchy or in pain………..which is why I emailed the vet.

            Poor Whiskers!!!!!!!!!!! And poor YOU, having to watch him in so much pain!!!!!!!!!!! Yup, that would drive me to tears, too!!!!!!!!!!! I’d be a nervous wreck after all of that!!!!!! I can just imagine Whiskers giving all the hospital staff hell!!!!!!!!!!!!! “You turned me into a girl!!!!!!!!” I’m glad he is able to pee now, though!!!!!!!!! And just like you, I would have been sitting in front of his cage every day, too!!!!!!!! I tried to visit Holly the one time she had to spend two days in the hospital because the S/O food made her so constipated, but they wouldn’t let me come; they told me to wait until she’s more stabilized…….and by then it was time to pick her up. They probably didn’t want me bawling, and making Holly feel worse………which would have happened. Every time I’ve had to take her to the vet the last couple of months I’ve been a basket case……….it’s hard seeing my baby sick, and knowing she has to go through so many tests and pokes……….as I’m sure you well know!!!!! I don’t know how your heart survived losing six cats; I wouldn’t have been able to adopt any more after all that trauma. Especially after losing Lily the way you did.

            Yikes!!!!!! Poor Mario…………how did you know there was something wrong with him? Holly swallowed the tassel and string off one of my bookmarks a couple of years ago; it was on my computer table, and it never occurred to me that she could even get up on the table (there was no room for her); but my bookmark was minus a tassel, so I knew who had done it…….and she went to the vet, too. They took x-rays, but didn’t see anything, so she must have pooped it out. Scared the crap out of me, though!!!!! I can’t imagine her swallowing a whole TOY!!!!!!!! I’d be a total basket case!!!!!!!!!!!! You sure do have nerves of steel!!!!!!!!!!

            I did look up megacolon—it’s when a cat has been chronically constipated, and the colon gets stretched larger, to the point where the muscles don’t contract anymore to push the poop out. When Holly had so many poop problems, and wasn’t going for days at a time, I thought that’s what she had; but the specialist showed me the x-rays, and said her colon would be twice the size if she had megacolon. She just warned me to get the constipation under control, or this could happen…………and then her only option would be surgery.

            I was EXTREMELY happy with Holly’s current vet all these months (since January); it only got to be tense and frustrating when they kept pushing me to put Holly back on prescription food…………and then when the vet told me to stop listening to advice from websites or pet food stores, and put Holly back on a scientifically based prescription food for constipated cats. THAT’s what made me angry…….like they were telling me I was stupid, and they were the only ones who could be right. Up until then I never had a bad word to say about them. I still like all the staff—I just wish they would respect my wishes to feed Holly a healthy diet. I even told the vet during my first appointment that I walked away from Holly’s previous vet mainly because he kept pushing Hill’s onto me, telling me that was the BEST and ONLY the BEST food for Holly to eat. Hmmmmmmmmmm……….wonder how many millions he gets from spouting those lies!!!!!!!

            I’m hoping the vet’s office will contact me tomorrow morning; if I don’t hear from them by lunch time, I’ll call (if Holly doesn’t seem any better). I’ve been giving her the Rescue Remedy the last two days—she hasn’t been “startling” as much. We’ve had construction workers outside our building for the last couple of weeks, trying to fix our road (seems like they dig up our intersection every single summer!!!!), and Holly has been jumping every time the jackhammers start up or a car horn honks, or even if I get up too fast. Her nerves are worse than mine!!!!!!!!!!! I bought the Rescue Remedy mainly to give before a vet visit, but I kept forgetting to give it to her; now I have it with all her other supplements, and give it to her twice a day. I was also hoping this might help with her “back end” problems—if she’s anxious so much, maybe that’s why she’s got urinary or poop problems??? I don’t know……….and neither do the vets!!!!!!! Can’t wait for Steve’s supplements to arrive!!!!

            Just realized what time it is………….long past my bedtime!!!!!! I got caught up looking for info online for Holly, and didn’t look at the clock. I’ve got to get to bed, though; tomorrow I’m (hopefully) going to use my steam cleaner to deodorize my smokey carpet (the smoke comes through the floor from my downstairs neighbour). I found a product called “Fresh Wave”, a deodorizer you can either add to your laundry or steam cleaner, or even use as an air freshener; it uses natural ingredients (I actually called to make sure it was safe for pets—they’ve got a veterinarian who helped develop the product); it’s the first deodorizer I’ve been able to tolerate, without it bothering my asthma symptoms or allergies. AND it got the smoke out of my carpet last winter!!!! Anyway, gotta go get some sleep, or I’ll have to put it off for another day. Take care of yourself and all your babies!!!!!!!!!!

            Ruth

          • joanne October 9, 2014 at 9:16 am #

            hi ruth

            I looked on the net to see about mucus in pooh. I am going to list some links.

            https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100109111827AAuXkQC

            http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/digestive/c_ct_mucus_in_stool

            http://www.helpmycat.com/symptoms.php?ds=542

            http://ibdcrohns.about.com/od/relatedconditions/f/mucusstool.htm

            just maybe some of these links might help. If you can get that figured out, you will be on your way… Most of these sites say stress too.. Back to rescue remedy?

            There are so many things that it takes someone with answers to know.

            Just like moose, how come he can go all day long eat and not have problems…then at ngiht all hell breaks loose. I did write steve and let him know I wrote dr g too. Right now moose isn’t really hungry…I need to see if he will eat in a bit. I have to go out today and don’t want him hungry.

            Yep when it comes to our cats, its a day to day adventure. Now, this is why I keep them in their own living spaces. And still something can go south on me. I just try to check on all of them everyday and just watch and hope they will just be cats.

            let me know
            joanne

          • Ashley October 9, 2014 at 11:10 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            Thank you SO VERY MUCH for the links you sent me!!!!!!!!! You’re such a SWEETHEART!!!!!!!!!!! Holly WAS diagnosed with colitis when she was seeing her first vet; that was because she kept having blood ON her stools when she pooped, especially when we changed her food. I don’t remember there being a lot of mucous, though—not as much as I’ve seen since starting the raw diet. And I DO agree that stress is a big factor in Holly’s problems……….so yes, I’m going to continue with the Rescue Remedy.

            I don’t remember if I told you or not, but my apartment has been in a state of chaos for the past year and a half. Because of all the smoke coming into my apartment from the neighbours, I finally convinced the landlord (with the help of a law student!!!) to seal up all the pipes behind my drywall, where the smoke was coming in at the time. It sounds so simple, but it took over a year for the process to go from start to finish, with me having to move my furniture every few weeks, lay plastic on the floor whenever the construction guys came in, a whole lot of waiting in between visits, and a whole lot of stress for both me and Holly. I know I was a total basket case that whole time, angry that the smokers were ruining our health, and angry that the landlord and building inspector were taking so long to get the job done. They ended up putting eight holes in my wall (it took them over a month to seal them back up), and right now I’ve still got white drywall patches throughout my apartment; the landlord agreed to pay for the primer to cover my whole apartment, but I would have to pay for someone to paint (and buy the paint—which I’ve already got; I can’t do it myself because paint affects my asthma). With all of Holly’s vet bills, I just haven’t been able to get the apartment painted. My apartment colours are pink, yellow, and mauve right now; if I agreed to let the guy come in and put the primer on the walls, my apartment would look like a hospital—too white for me. I’d rather put up with the white patches, than whole walls painted white!!! On top of the stress from waiting for this whole procedure to end, there was always drywall dust throughout the apartment, making my allergies crazy!!!!!!!!!!! So……………yeah, I don’t doubt Holly has been stressed out.

            But that was over before the summer; I think her more recent stressors might be having to go to the vet so often—-I was taking her for weigh-ins every two weeks (before I found a baby scale I could afford), plus her calories were being decreased, then we added the wet S/O to her diet so she wouldn’t be so hungry…….but that led to another severe case of constipation…………which led to enemas. When that happened, I gave up on the S/O diet and switched her to Hound and Gatos………..and she started not pooping for 3/4/5/6 days; her stools were soft and formed, they just wouldn’t come out. When that didn’t resolve itself, I finally started the raw diet……..which is when the mucous got bad. So if mucous is caused by stress, then I’m not surprised Holly’s producing a whole lot of it!!!!!!!!!! The thing is, none of the vets—Holly’s primary, the vet Holly saw when her primary was away, or the specialist, ever said that the mucous was a “bad” thing (all three saw what she pooped out), and never suggested I try to do anything about it…………except for going back to the prescription diet.

            And then, today she didn’t have any mucous at all……..so I don’t know if this is a result of increasing the Psyllium, if her colon is starting to get used to the diet, or if it’s just a fluke. I guess I’ll know more with the next BM.

            Okay, enough about Holly and me!!!!!!!!!!! I’m SO SORRY Moose had diarrhea again!!!!!!!! Did you change the supplement times with Moose, too, or just Whiskers??? I’m wondering if, because he was used to having a certain amount of supplements in his body at a certain time, maybe switching them threw off the amount that was in his body for a few hours? What about, instead of switching the supplements from breakfast to supper time (or however you did it), you start slower and switch the breakfast dose to lunch time, and the supper dose to bedtime for a couple of days, and then if that’s okay, go back to giving him the breakfast dose at supper time, and his supper dose at breakfast time. Does that make any sense? I know with my medication to not make me sick, I need to take the doses around the same time every day; if I miss a dose, or even forget for a few hours, I get really sick. Maybe it’s the same with Moose and his supplements???? Does that make any sense??? Just a thought.

            I REALLY hope both Moose and Whiskers have a better night tonight, and you can do your happy dance when you clean out the litter box tomorrow!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 9, 2014 at 4:26 pm #

            I heard from steve. he says he likes it when using homeopath and his products together. He gave me some ideas too and I am going to ask dr. g. I sincerely would email steve and ask him about the mucus coming on and then going. I know he is big on raw too. Have you gotten your suppls from him yet.

            I asked the lady at docs office about getting urine with a needle. She said they would have a free catch because you get everything coming out. You could gather it yourself if you have the time and patients. I did it once and said never again.

            well in the time I started this post, moose is doing better. However I fed ceasear and he puked a small amount up right afterwards. then I fed whiskers and went downstairs…I also fed Mario too. I came back to check and whiskers had puked. He wasn’t real hungry when I fed him. I called docs office and he is going in again tomorrow. I wrote dr g and let her know. I wrote steve too. Steve told me to increase mooses dose to 3/4t now.

            So if you want to know……yes I am having a bad time right now. I dragged whiskers from under the bed. I got so scared because he looked to be having issues.

            If I miss things in your last post, its because I am having trouble concentrating and remembering…I just didn’t want you to think I wouldn’t answer. Interesting Steve thought too like you maybe moose is having anxiety at night.

            Well tonight I will give him 3/4t of feline comfort and luxolite. I will give it in a tiny amount of food and if moose is real hungry, I will give him a small amount of food. Whiskers seems to be ok, he and Mario are laying right by my chair as I type and are both grooming each other.

            I know when cats get constipated they also puke too. Generally ceasear gets diarrhea so I am going to keep an eye on both he and calliope…I haven’t seem much of anything in their box.

            I would ask steve about holly….He is really knowledgable.

          • Ashley October 9, 2014 at 5:04 pm #

            Hi again, Joanne,

            I just got your email as I was hitting the Send button to let you know what Steve’s daughter (?) suggested!!!

            Holy smokes, I am SO SORRY to hear your babies are puking again!!!!!!!!!!! I can TOTALLY UNDERSTAND you having a bad day under those circumstances!!!!!!!!! If there’s anything I can do or say, please let me know!!!!!!!!

            I know how hard (and scary) it is to drag a kitty out of her hiding spot, especially when she isn’t feeling well. Thankfully, I’ve got a “mate’s bed”—a platform bed with drawers underneath, and the sides of the bed go right to the floor…….no room for kitty to get underneath!!!!! However……when I had Ashley, she actually managed to OPEN THE DRAWERS (don’t ask me how!!!), crawled into them, and then hid behind the drawers underneath my bed!!!!!!!!!! I had to take the drawer out and then reach back to the far wall to get her out. I was always afraid if there was ever a fire in our building, I wouldn’t be able to get her out in time. I’ve actually got pictures of her sliding in and coming out of the drawers. Holly tends to hide in the closet when she’s really not feeling well (she’s got a bed in both closets).

            That is SOOOOOOO SWEET to know your kitties are grooming each other!!!!!!! They love each other!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Yes, cats often do puke when they are constipated; I think from the straining, sometimes it pushes the food back up the other way. That’s what kept happening with Ashley the week before I had her put to sleep; she ate, she tried to poop but couldn’t, so she puked instead. After every meal. I couldn’t watch her suffer like that anymore, and the vets told me there was nothing else they could do for her, so I let her go. It took me a LONG time to get over that, but at least she isn’t in pain anymore.

            Never worry about not answering things in my emails or worry that I think you’re ignoring me. If something is really important, I’ll ask again. I’m sorry you’re having trouble concentrating; that happens a lot to me, too, especially when I’m stressed out. Some days I have to just go into my bedroom and put my head under the covers for a couple of hours. If I talk too much, or send too many emails, especially if you’re having a bad day, PLEASE don’t feel the need to respond!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know I talk too much………..so just take your time, and only write when you feel like it; don’t push yourself on my account…………THAT would make me feel guilty!!!!!!!!!!! Take time to look after YOU—you spend so much time taking care of the kitties, but (and I need to remember this too) you also need to remember to take care of yourself, too. My therapist reminded me in one session to think of it like being a parent on an airplane; if the oxygen masks come down, the adults are supposed to put THEIR OWN masks on first, so that they can then be alert enough to do it for the kids. So we have to take care of ourselves first, so that we have the strength to take care of our babies. Make sense??

            No, I haven’t gotten my supplements from Steve yet. According to the tracking info, they are still at the Los Angeles processing facility. I actually freaked out this morning when I saw they were in Los Angeles, and emailed Steve to see if there was a mistake (I thought the shipping would have gone straight North to Canada, not West to LA); LeLa emailed me back telling me that it should arrive within 7-14 days (I chose the cheapest delivery option), and that I had given them the right address……so just to sit tight and it will get to me soon. I did send my emails to Steve, but LeLa answered them, so I’m guessing he’s away right now.

            About the needle in the bladder, I was told that it was the only way not to contaminate the urine sample. I’ve never done a free catch, and I really doubt Holly would let me near her when she’s trying to pee!!!!!!!!! I don’t blame you for never wanting to do it again, either!!!!! Ashley’s vet gave us about a tablespoon of “special” litter to put in her litter box a number of years ago; it doesn’t soak up the urine, so when she peed, I would be able to dump the pee into a sterile container to bring to the vet’s office. I never used it. For starters, Ashley liked to dig in her litter before she peed; and second, with only a tablespoon full of litter that DOESN’T soak up the urine………..that meant Ashley would be standing in her own urine, and I’d have to catch her before she walked across my carpet with wet, stinky feet. Don’t know what her vet was thinking with only giving me such a tiny amount of litter in the first place!!!!!!!!

            I hope you and ALL your babies feel better soon!!!!!!!!!! Give them all hugs for me, and tell Jim to give YOU a hug for me!!!!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 9, 2014 at 7:43 pm #

            Hi ruth

            never worry about saying to much. sometimes we just have to let things out. I get so worried that its really nice to have someone who understands just be there to offer support. All the puking has stopped with whiskers. Now I have to check on ceasear. Moose has gotten all of his suppls for the night. I put down 1.5oz of food. If he eats that before I go to bed fine…I will give him a little more.

            Don’t worry about how things get shipped, they go to places I have never understood either, but they will get there. On the clay, make sure to ask lela how much to give holly. You don’t want her to get constipated either. You just want holly to be able to go.

            Moose doesn’t mind eating the suppls with his food. He likes them. When whisker goes on the uro cleanse, I will have to put that in a tiny amount of food, let him eat it, and then give him the rest of his food. I didn’t give him subq fluids tonight because he had been sick and I didn’t want to stress him out. I will let doc know. From what doc said, whiskers had mucus in his urine and that was from the crystals probably irritated his lining of his bladder. There are a number of borion products that are homeopath for urinary too. Between doc and dr G I have accumulated a lot of them. Whiskers was on some too. All my kitties have been on them.

            Tonight I let ceasar and calliope come into the area where moose lives. Nothing happened. that is a good sign. Going to let all of them spend more time together. You know when you can do a consult with Dr G, I think you will learn more from her than any of those western vets. In texas, those vets were so closed minded and refused to listen to listen. They couldn’t believe that Mario could get well without their steroids or that whiskers could get well too. I believe they are so closed minded, they cant even see the damage they are doing to animals.

            What I like now with holistic etc, I spend money on the suppls and not a bunch of exams. And with doc, she charges a recheck fee. when bringing the cat back for the same thing etc. My hubby liked doc right off. He is really impressed with the team we have. I so wish you find a holistic vet locally. I will serf the net and see if there are any holistic vets in your area. (Toronto Canada) I don’t know the area so if find any, I will just give you the links…

          • Ashley October 9, 2014 at 4:26 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I hope Moose was okay while you were out today.

            I got an email from LeLa at VS; she suggested I put Holly on the Luxolite and the Uro Cleanse. Due to cost of the products plus shipping, and the fact Holly needs something faster than what the USPS can deliver, I asked if it was okay to use D-Mannose from the health food store; she told me yes, I could, and suggested 1/4 tsp 2x/day. I went out to the store as soon as I got the email, and just gave some to Holly right now. Fingers are crossed!!!!

            The Luxolite is bentonite clay, and I already have a sample of clay sent to me by the Earthpaste toothpaste company; LeLa said that was okay, too. So I only had to buy one product today. You were right………….VS staff are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was afraid of them being angry with me for asking for advice without purchasing anything; LeLa wrote back, telling me they don’t get angry, they just want my cat to be healthy!!!!!!!! Man, you do NOT see stuff like that in Canada these days (at least not very often)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you SO VERY MUCH for recommending them to me!!!!!!!!!!!

            I also got an email back from Holly’s vet. She told me if Holly was still having urinary issues to take her back to the specialist for an ultrasound and bloodwork. I asked if I could bring her to the clinic instead, since I knew the costs were cheaper. She emailed back saying that it would be the same price, because the clinic has to call in a doctor to do the ultrasound. Um……….?????? That’s a new one for me, especially since I know they use ultrasound to do the urine test. It was just after that that I got the response from LeLa. I’ll try D-Mannose until Tuesday (it’s a long weekend for us in Canada [Thanksgiving]); if I don’t notice any improvement, I will take her to the ER on Tuesday. Again, my fingers are crossed; the ultrasound alone is over $500, and that doesn’t even include the $180 fee for the consult and more for reading of the tests. Hopefully a $40 bottle of D-Mannose works!!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope you had a good day today, Joanne. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 9, 2014 at 7:22 pm #

            Hi ruth.

            wow, cant those vets diagnosis anything without a test. the can examine holly and feel her bladder and feel for stool…when it took whiskers to back up vet, the tech examined him and said nothing is wrong. A simple ua will tell a lot like crystals and the ph… These things don’t cost an arm and a leg. blood work would tell them the chemistry.

            Doc could tell whiskers was blocked and didn’t rely on an xray or ultra sound. She did xrays on moose but nothing showed up. She did suggest an ultra sound. it would have cost 325.00 or so. If holly was blocked, you would know it in a heart beat…She wouldn’t be running around or eating either. She would be in and out of the box. When whiskers started blocking, he was in and out of the box. That night I thought he was constipated. I took him first thing to doc the next morning. I don’t think I ever knew what I was in for.

            Doc doesn’t have a big high power office like some of these vets. But when it comes to experience, she is the best. She works with people. and she really does understand what it means not to be able to afford care.

            So after all you have been through with these vets and all the money you have paid out, they should be cutting you some slack. But believe me, I do understand of why some vets make it so that many people don’t trust any of them. I had this happen to me in Texas and with ozzie. That jerk who worked on ozzie triple charged us. Even the er looked at his bills and said we would never have charged you like this.

            That is why I say, work with steve and work with Dr. G. She is extremely reasonable too. And she is a good vet. She knows so much…And what I like is she is so open minded. This is the very first time ever for me, I have so many knowledgeable people working with me…

            And I hope no one else has to loose a kitty to many of these things that western medicine cant fix or the vets who refuse to look at alternative healing…I am speaking from my heart as I look at pictures of my little lily cat who I put down at three pounds…She had wasted away to nothing and I tell myself each day now, let all the anger go, let any negative feelings go. I will only do you more harm….

          • Ashley October 9, 2014 at 8:45 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            It’s funny you should say “they should cut me some slack in bills after all I’ve paid them”………that’s one of the things that drew me to this clinic: I was told they had cheaper rates for patients with “chronic” health problems, who would need more frequent visits. Um………..how many visits does it take to know she’s got CHRONIC problems?!?!?!??!

            The one thing with switching to Dr. G…….she can’t examine Holly or do any tests, so I’d still have to play nice with the vets here.

            I don’t know if it’s a fluke, or if the D-Mannose actually works fast, but Holly actually peed a second time today, about an hour after I gave her the first 1/4 tsp. The last few days she’s only been peeing once. I also gave her 1/4 tsp of the clay with her last meal at 10:30 (as well as an extra dose of D-Mannose; I was surprised—she didn’t mind the taste!!! It smelled weird, so I wasn’t sure she’d eat it.

            I’m pretty sure Holly isn’t blocked; I just worry when she doesn’t pee as much as normal, especially since she’s eating part dry food. I cut back one dry food meal today and gave her raw with water instead; maybe that was the extra pee tonight.

            I’m surprised the ER who treated Ozzie didn’t stand up for you and ask that vet to give your money back!!!!! When stuff like that happens to me, I can’t do a face-to-face confrontation, but I DO send letters or emails to the top head honchos. Even if nothing gets done about the problem, it makes me feel better to vent. Most times, though, I get a gift card or a number of coupons for whatever store messed up; the politicians never give me anything, but I often get “form” letters written back to me. It pays to let them know that YOU know they were wrong. I wish you didn’t have to go through all that horror with Ozzie and Lily, though. You are so good (and healthy) to be able to let go of your anger. I know from experience that anger that isn’t dealt with leads to a lot of health problems—mental and physical. I’m glad you’ve still got the pictures to remind you of Lily, too; that’s what helped me get through Ashley’s death…………..I stared at (and cried over) her picture for hours. I don’t know if you’ve thought of this (or maybe you’ve already done it), what also helped me with Ashley’s death is making a kind of “memorial” for her. I’ve got one of her pictures in a frame on my dresser; I bought a fancy box from the dollar store and put all Ashley’s favourite things in it (her blankie, favourite toys, her collar and leash, a couple of pictures, her brush, the poem of Rainbow Bridge, and a poem I wrote for her a year after she died); and put the picture, the box, and her urn with the ashes in it all on one corner of my dresser. That way I remember her every single day. And when I’m sad, I go through the box of Ashley’s favourites.

            I’m answering your last email in this one, so you don’t have so many piled up!!!

            I think I freaked out about the shipment going to LA because I know there is another “Scarborough” in the US somewhere, and when the package didn’t go straight North, I wondered if they’d shipped it to the other Scarborough instead of to Canada. Leave it to me to get worried over nothing!!!

            I didn’t know subq fluids stressed out the kitties (except for when the fluids are going in); most times Holly just sits on the floor while I give her the fluids. Sometimes, though, I guess there’s too much fluid in one place and she starts to get up………and I have to follow her or the needle will come out. I didn’t give her any fluids today, either. The specialist told me to only give Holly fluids for two weeks (and only gave me supplies to last that long), so I’m trying to cut back to every other day and see how she does. If she still seems dehydrated, I’ll have to figure out something else—either forget the dry food, or get more supplies. The specialist said she wanted Holly drinking water on her own, rather than relying on subq fluids; makes sense, but try telling HOLLY that!!!!!!!!! She’s as stubborn as I am!!!!!

            Doesn’t the D-Mannose (or the Uro Cleanse) get rid of the crystals in the bladder? Or is it just for urinary infections? Poor Whiskers!!!!!!!

            I’m so happy that your kitties had a good time with each other, and there were no fights!!! How do they normally stay apart, in their own “living areas”??? Or do they just not want to be around each other? I wouldn’t know HOW to keep that many kitties apart from each other!!!!

            You know, in my email to the vet, I did ask her if I could use D-Mannose for Holly, since the antibiotics didn’t work AND she had a bad reaction to the second one; she never answered that question. I think it’s what you said………they’re close-minded; they don’t think anything can work for Holly’s health except their drugs and prescription food!!!!!!!!!! It’s the same with human doctors—“health food supplements aren’t regulated, so you don’t know what’s in them” so take our poisons instead; they’re tested scientifically, and the TV even tells you what side effects to watch out for!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, whatever!!!!!!!!

            So, you KNOW you’ve got a good vet team, when hubby likes them too!!!!!!!!! Yup, your vets sound AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!! Don’t get me wrong, I DO still like the vet and her staff (for the moment!!!!)………but it is frustrating when they won’t listen to what I’m saying. I told them all, I may not be a vet, but I AM a cat mom, and Holly is not/was not doing well on the food you wanted me to feed her. The vet told me I needed to use “tough love”, and feed her the prescription diet even if she WAS hungry all the time. I wonder if she’d say the same thing to one of the staff members whose pet had the same issues?!?!?! Maybe I need Jim to come up at knock some sense into these people!!!!!

            There IS one holistic vet that I know of in Scarborough—but it’s three bus rides from home, the first visit was over $200, and I read a lot of horrible customer reviews for the clinic, so I refused to take Holly there. I wish I had made the decision three years ago to go holistic, and maybe I’d have more money in my pocket to spend on holistic care. Like you said……..hindsight is perfect!!!!!!!!

            Thank you SO VERY MUCH for looking up the links of holistic vets for me!!!!!!!!! You’re such a sweetheart, even when you’re having a bad day too!!!!!!!!!!!! The vets that had the bad reviews were from the East York Animal Clinic; the Secord Animal Hospital and the hospital in High Park are both on the other side of the city from me—since I don’t have a car I would need a vet either within walking distance or no more than 1/2 hour bus ride (especially with Holly being so anxious now when she goes to the vet). I did contact Dr. Dale-Harris; she told me that with being a mobile vet she charges more than even the regular holistic vets—which are already out of my budget; plus she told me I’d need to keep a regular vet anyway, since she doesn’t do any of the regular stuff—only naturopathic medicine. The other mobile vet only services the downtown area, and I live out in the East end of the city. I’m sorry, Joanne, I don’t mean to be knocking all your ideas down–honest!!!!!!!!! I feel SO BAD, when you’re trying so hard to help me. I’m hoping that these new supplements work for Holly, so that I won’t need to do the ultrasound or bloodwork or another ua; if I can save some money without having to dish out for more vet costs, maybe I’ll be able to contact Dr. G next month…………unless Holly gets completely better, and then I won’t need to worry about vet costs at all!!!!!!!! I read somewhere online that in the “olden days”, people didn’t take their pets to the vets; there was no need. The pets ate table scraps and wildlife, and not this prescription crap we have today, and they were much healthier. I believe it!!!!!!!!!! When I lived at home (more than 25 years ago), we had a veterinarian in our small town; back then, I always assumed that vets were there to take care of farm animals (we lived in a farming community); I never even considered that people took their pets there………..pretty naive!!!!!!

            I REALLY hope all your babies have a better night tonight, and feel better by morning. And don’t forget to get some sleep YOURSELF, too!!!!!!!!! Thank you SO VERY MUCH for all your support, your suggestions, and for looking online for a vet for me!!!!!!!!!!! Your babies are SO LUCKY to have a mom with such a big heart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take care of yourself, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 9, 2014 at 9:16 pm #

            hi ruth

            not to worry, I had hoped you might be able to find a holistic vet. With dr g, I sent her all the lab work and reports…In texas, they had to give me the records…Now doc just sends everything to her. Doc is the treating vet and dr g is consulting vet. When it comes to hoemopath remedies and suppls, doc says lets have Dr Gardner make the call. And doc even admits she doesn’t know what dr g does. When she has all your records, she goes over them and can see what has been done for your pet. Dmannose is a sugar, but not in the sense of being a bad one. It is used for infections…It doesn’t work on crystals, it helps with irritation. I wont know how the uro clense is until dr g oks it for me to try on whiskers. I was buying a bunch of things separately and mixing them together per dr. G. We had to get whiskers pee more acid because crystals don’t grow in acid urine.

            With ozzie, there was nothing I could do. The vet can charge anything they want and its not illegal. there was nothing I could do. And then I met two other people he had screwed worse than me. I bad mouthed him to other vets in that community. And a couple of them knew what he had done. His practice isn’t making money like before because after he screws one over, they don’t come back. this guys really thinks his sh@@ doesn’t stink.

            I have a whole bookcase filled with pictures etc of all my kitties. And this month marks seven years that I lost my rassy cat. I adored him…I light a candle on each ones day to mark it. And I will tell you, sometimes it really tears me up. Always wondering could I have done more. I couldn’t with kidney disease. I had rassy cat for 18.5 years…and then one day I didn’t. I bought a book by kim sheridian about animals and the afterlife…It did help. I miss them all and there is a big hole in my heart…

          • Ashley October 10, 2014 at 6:59 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            I wouldn’t have the guts to ask Holly’s vet for her lab results or the x-rays or even the records to send Dr. G. I was scared to death when I switched from the old vet to Holly’s new vet; they asked if it was okay for them to request Holly’s records from the old office, and I said yes. Ten minutes later, the old office called me and asked why the new office was requesting Holly’s file; I was shaking, but I told them that I got tired of leaving messages for the vet and not getting any response. Holly was sick and he didn’t seem to care, so I found one that did!!!!! There was a long silence, and then the secretary (the one who I’m pretty sure never gave half the messages to the vet in the first place) said okay and then hung up on me. If I still have to work with Holly’s vet, I wouldn’t have the courage to ask for the records for Dr. G to see; I’d be afraid of the vet telling me not to come back…………and Holly still needs her for regular stuff.

            I am SO GLAD you spread the word that the vet who screwed you over was a horrible vet!!!!!! The more people who know ahead of time what he’s like, the less likely THEY will get screwed over. That’s why I read all the customer reviews on things I want to buy, or in this case, even for vets. I knew enough to stay away from a few vets before I even considered calling them in February; Holly’s current vet had lots of good reviews, plus I talked to the secretary and she sounded awesome…………that’s always a good sign. It’s really sad when vets (and even doctors) think they are God’s gift to the world………….and then charge you an arm an a leg for their opinion of themselves!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Maybe this month being the 7th anniversary of losing Rassy Cat is part of the reason you were having a bad day yesterday??? I wish you hadn’t had to go through so much heartache and pain with losing all your babies!!!!!!! I’m not surprised you’ve got a big hole in your heart!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope you’re current babies are starting to fill that hole up!!!!!!!!!!!! And I’m glad you’ve got lots of pictures to remember everyone by!!!!!

            When I got up this morning, Holly’s back end did NOT smell like pee or poop or anything!!!!!!! Maybe the D-Mannose is already starting to work??? I hope so. She hasn’t peed or pooped since yesterday, but I’ll give her extra water with her breakfast in a few minutes (I have to wait 1/2 hour before feeding her after giving her one of her meds). She’s not so good at waiting when she’s hungry!!!!!

            I hope you and the kidlets have a better day today, Joanne. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 10, 2014 at 9:38 am #

            hi ruth
            first off, I do read reviews too. however, not everyone who goes to a place is going to be happy. I found that out. I went somewhere and someone had posted a nasty review. As it turned out, I had great service and liked the vet where we use to live. I always need a back up for just in case.

            The records are yours. You paid for them and they cant deny access to you. what I did was tell them, I was using holistic vet for food etc and needed the records. I said surely you would want my kitties to do get the best of care anywhere I can get it. And don’t worry, I doubt the vets really have time for it…You might be doing them a favor.

            Dr. G was educated at Cambridge univer in England.

            Everytime you stand up, you are boosting your own self esteem. You are taking control and not allowing others to have power over you. And in the process you might be pleansantly surprised about how good it feels. You aren’t happy with a lot of their suggestions etc. Personally, I do what I want to do and let them know…If they know you are getting advise from someone like dr g, I doubt they would say much…how can they argue with her when she may know more than they do.

            And when you start seeing results, there is no way, they can dispute it. I had a couple vets ask me how she cured rodent ulcer without steroids…And now doc is deciding about ordering steves products too. She does holistic and western… She is not imitidated by dr. G. she likes having someone there who is so knowledgeable and will help out.

            Vets need to get over their egos and start thinking about the animals they are supposed to help. And if they see results that their drugs do nothing for, well then, you are making them more knowledgable too. My backup vet also has a holistic vet on board… Drugs don’t work on so many things… So just think that you are doing them a favor. Even steve said he likes it when homoepath things are combined with his products. I update dr g and him and doc constinuosusly on what each other has to say. And moose is getting back to himself.

            His appetite is good, and bowels are doing much better. today I didn’t find any puke… Its about holly. and its about you not giving your power away. You know more than you realize.

            Todeay whiskers is going to see doc.. She will advise dr g if any problems. We are planning to put him on steves product if all goes well. I just have to keep him on cd diet. Its about keeping his urine acid and keeping the stones away. I don’t want to go to a vet who refuses to spend as little time just to get money and have whiskers not get well. And as I realize now, moose was so close to death…but I didn’t give up….like before with lily. I never told you this, but she died on my birthday. So much happened and then Charlie died two months later of asthma ….I wonder sometimes,……I never let him out. He had a cough and that last year, it just got so bad. this broke my heart because I had dealt with fatty liver and got him through that. He just never seemed to be the same….And then I got sick and almost died myself. and jim was gone relocated per his job….And then I found myself so sick I had to ask my friends to help me outside of texas to take care of my cats…My one friend fell in love with tootsie and I couldn’t ask her to give her back. Tootise hated the other cats and just went into depression when her best friend lily died and Charlie died. I couldn’t do much because I was so sick. And then my friend in Ark. took dolly and ozzie for me…I got them back and she made arrangements to have people fly with them to Utah. I lost 40 pounds in 6 weeks. Holistic meds saved my life.

            So pat yourself on the back and say Ruth can stand up to any vet and fight for holly. And its ruth decision if she wants to do more holistic….

          • Ashley October 10, 2014 at 11:12 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            You are SUUUUUUUUUUUUCH A SWEETHEART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you SO VERY MUCH for the pep talk!!!!!!!!!!! I know I need to stand up for myself more AND for Holly; I know her health comes above what any vet thinks or says of me, even when I go against what they want. If it wasn’t for the fact that I still need to use them for emergencies, I wouldn’t mind so much asking for Holly’s files. I guess I’m worried that she’ll say, Here you go, and don’t come back…………and I won’t have anywhere to take Holly when I’m desperate. Know what I mean??? For me, it’s been HELL just going against them and feeding Holly the raw diet instead of prescription; I’m doing it behind their back, but I already know things have changed between us because I kept arguing with them, and likely because I questioned what they were really doing. The staff used to call regularly to check up on Holly, especially when I sent them an email with questions; that hasn’t happened since I took her to the specialist. The vet sent me an email (instead of calling or getting the technician to call, like she usually did), but she told me to take Holly back to the specialist instead of coming to the clinic. I know the specialist is likely more qualified, but it just seems like there has been a break in our connection, like she’s put up a cold shoulder; does that make sense??? So even though I know what I’m doing for Holly is the absolute BEST and RIGHT thing for her, I’m terrified to cause more tension between the vet staff and me. It’s also the way I was raised, too………….my mom always said “don’t rock the boat”, and “keep the peace”, and for the first 35 years, that’s how I lived, whether it be with with my dad or other family members or anyone at all. It hasn’t been until the last 5-7 years that I’ve really started seeing what my family did to me, how they raised me, and realized that I turned into a wimp who only took orders, whether they were right or wrong. If someone had told me to jump off a bridge back then, I would have done it without a second thought. Now—I’d be pushing THEM off—–at least in my dreams!!!!!!!!!!

            When I look at reviews, I don’t dismiss the product or person if there are only one or two bad comments; but when more than half are negative, I tend to look for something/someone different. From what I’ve experienced, most people don’t post bad reviews lightly; in fact I’ve made a few negative reviews myself………..only to warn other people to stay away from a product that didn’t live up to what was advertised (like when a “healthy” Canadian company sells stuff that’s made in China!!!). Same goes for a vet. I actually ignored the bad comments for one clinic in January, and took Holly there because it was cheaper than anywhere else; the vet gave Holly a deworming pill (which I doubt she needed, since she hasn’t been outside since I adopted her, and they dewormed her at the shelter)—and then charged me $30 for it, even though I didn’t agree for him to give it to Holly………he just came back in the room, opened the package and stuck the pill in her mouth without even telling me what it was…………and I was so shocked and stunned I couldn’t even react, or stop him from shoving the pill down Holly’s throat. He also gave her Clavomox for a UTI, without even testing to see if she actually had one; and at the time (according to Holly’s new vet) she DIDN’T have one………it was struvite stones that was causing her not to pee!!!!!!!!! If I had listened to the bad reviews, instead of going for the cheapest vet, I would have saved Holly a lot of pain and suffering—the antibiotics made her sick as a dog, and didn’t clear up the real problem.

            The thing about Dr. G is that my vet doesn’t agree with holistic medicine or supplements…….so I doubt they will think she knows more than they do. If they can’t even accept me feeding Holly a raw diet, or telling me I can use D-Mannose instead of antibiotics, I can’t see them agreeing that Dr. G knows more than they do (too much God-complex). That doesn’t mean I’m not going to fight to get the files. I know I’ll eventually get the courage to do it……….but I might have to be prepared to take Holly somewhere else for regular treatment……..which is hard, given that there aren’t any other vets really close to me. It wouldn’t be so bad if it was just a once-a-year visit, like I had with most of Ashley’s life; but especially having to take Holly out in the winter, with the sidewalks and roads not plowed…..my shopping cart doesn’t like snow as it is, and carrying Holly on top makes it that much more difficult to maneuver. Last winter was HORRIBLE, so I’m hoping to get Holly fixed up before the snow starts!!!!!!!!!!!

            Yes, I totally agree that vets need to get over their egos………….but they don’t like being told by patients’ moms that we know better than them when it comes to our babies, or WANT better treatment than they are offering. I tried to tell them time and time again that Holly didn’t do well on the prescription food, but they never listened; that’s when I just thought “forget it”, and went behind their backs……..which made them even angrier. I AM frustrated that they won’t listen to me (Holly’s old vet didn’t either); but except for their attitude on the prescription diet, I do like the staff…………not sure if it’s a two-way street anymore, though. Sometimes I just wanna put my head under the covers and stay there until the coast is clear!!!!!!!!!!

            I am SO GLAD that Moose is doing better today!!!!!!!! That’s AWESOME!!!!!!! Did you ever figure out why the cats all threw up last night??? Are the other kitties better this morning???

            Joanne, I am SOOOOOOO SORRY that Lily died on your birthday………what a horrible reminder!!!!!!!!!! And then to lose Charlie two months later????? How do you do it???? How do you stay functional for all your kitties, with so much pain in your heart?!?!??!?!?!?! No wonder you lost so much weight!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m glad you’re better now, so you can take care of your babies; you must have nerves of steel to keep pushing on after all that trauma in your life. I don’t think I could ever go through that and still be able to take care of a home full of furballs!!!!! When I adopted Holly, the shelter had her birthdate written down as November 1; I had to change it, though, because that was the day Holly died. I couldn’t handle having the good and bad date together.

            Yes, I WILL stand up for Holly’s rights and care……….but it might be behind the vet’s back until I get the guts to tell her what I’m doing……….and maybe not until Holly has improved enough for me to show them that she didn’t need the crappy diet!!!!! I always find it easier to tell them after the fact, so that if I ask and they say “NO”, then I don’t have to worry about doing something they told me not to do. Like I did with the raw diet. Granted, they told me afterwards to stop feeding her the raw, but I continued to do it……………I don’t know; sometimes it’s confusing. I know what I want for Holly (and me); sometimes I just don’t have the guts to create a conflict. As opposed to when I sent the vets the email with the prescription diet ingredients definition: THEN I was ready for a conflict, but I was also hoping that they would realize what’s really in the food, and tell me “You’re right, this IS crap”. But I guess they already knew what was in it, and just didn’t care. Some people—VERY closed-minded!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I REALLY hope Whiskers’ vet appointment goes well, and your vet team can figure out how best to treat him. Don’t worry about him being on the CD……..despite the hell the S/O caused Holly, that’s one diet that DID what it was supposed to, and got rid of her crystals. And that diet is only supposed to be used short term, anyway—just until the crystals dissolve; from what I remember, it doesn’t have enough calcium and magnesium in it for long-term use. Then you can put him back on whatever food Doc and Dr. G think is best. At least Doc is open-minded about Whiskers’ treatment; she won’t make him stay on crap food forever, ’cause she knows what’s in it………….and CARES about your babies!!!!!!!!!

            Let me know how Whiskers does whenever you have time to talk……………but DON’T PUSH YOURSELF if you’re worn out!!!!!!!!!!! I’m here if you need me, but if you need a break from the computer, I TOTALLY understand; take all the time you need!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take care of yourself, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 10, 2014 at 12:29 pm #

            hi ruth

            whiskers is back. doc said it could be fur balls that are down the gi tract. And it would make him puke even if nothing came out. So I am going to give the kids fur ball meds. I use bulter. Also I was thinking, I read that furballs can cause constipation too. I just wanted to share that with you.

            Whiskers does look good. good color and no blockage. You know when I go to back up vets, I tell them right off, we do holistic. No one around here has flipped me any sh@@ about it. I thought it was so interesting that they were asking me how dr g cured rodent ulcer without steroids. And then she cured Mario of skin problems Those came from the rabies vaccine. You should have seen the looks on those vets face. But then again when I took him to that specialist, he started reading dr piticarins book and saw vet medicine in a whole new way. That changed him…He told me to do everything that dr g said. And when I told dr g I think it quite surprised her too.

            From everything I have been through including animals and myself, there is no way I will let any doctor or vet bully me again. I told you my primary care doctor tried that on me. So I changed and made my holistic md my primary care doctor. I told him how sick I was of these allopaths trying to push me around. he said I didn’t have to take it…funny thing he is so much more qualified and knows so much more. I refuse to take their drugs. When the kidlets have to take drugs etc, I always let dr g know. Sometimes, one has to use a drug, but not for maint. and that is what they are doing with so many.

            Ask steve or lela if the dmannose is doing the job…I bet steve would sure know what the problem is… We shall see how moose does with his new dosage. I have to go and make his mid day feeding up for him and then do some errands.

            I will be back in touch…Let me know how holly is doing. You know more than you realize. and I will tell you this, dr g is a firm believer in raw food. And I had a stupid allopath vet try and convenience me that my cats were going to get sick eating it. Well Mario was on it for years until he ate the toy…And dolly ate it too. If you follow the directions, it is safe. I have never seen such closed minded bs on the parts of some of these guys. And whats really interesting, is that most of them know very little about nutrition and believe what those companies tell them. Well, cats never evolved to eat fish and fish turns urine alkaline. and cats and dogs never evolved to eat dry food.

            I have been reading about vaccines. Appears that most of them don’t work… When you get your things from steve, he will probably include a sheet on vaccines along with his line of products. I cant wait for you to be able to try them and see what he offers.

          • Ashley October 10, 2014 at 1:29 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I’m glad that Whiskers’ only problem is fur balls!!!!!!!!!! I’ve only recently heard of using butter for that problem; I had been using Laxatone gel (from the vet’s office, of course); I was always told to keep cats away from dairy, but the woman who makes the premix for Holly’s raw diet said there’s very little lactose in butter—it’s mostly animal fat. Holly has never been one to cough up fur balls (Ashley never had them either). I have heard they can cause constipation, though, but I’ve never seen any fur in Holly’s poop. I think it’s because I brush Holly twice a day, and I vacuum the whole apartment—including my bed, Holly’s beds, the furniture, and her cat tree) every day (I hate walking on cat fur or having it on my chair). A little OCD, but at least I’m not sneezing all the time.

            It surprises me that you can change a vet’s mind so easily, even with the book on holistic medicine; even with all the documentation I showed Holly’s vet, they still pushed Royal Canin and Hill’s. Maybe it’s because you had the proof to show them: that Whiskers, Mario, and Moose got better WITHOUT their meds!!!

            Today is the first full day that Holly hasn’t had a stinky bum………that could be because I cut her fur shorter a couple of days ago, or maybe the D-Mannose is working. She still hasn’t peed yet since yesterday afternoon (even after I gave her fluids this morning), so I’m getting a little concerned there, but she usually has her own schedule, so I’ll try to relax.

            Steve warned me about vaccines the first time I emailed him…………….he thought that was what Holly’s health problems were all related to. Her previous owners never gave Holly any medical care or vaccines, so the first time she got them was at the shelter after being surrendered. And then started having problems less than a week after I adopted her. Makes sense to me. And yes, I know that vaccines don’t work—just look at all the people who get flu shots and go on to get the flu that year!!!!!!!!!!! Never for me!!!!!!!!!! I only got Holly vaccinated (right before Steve told me they were harmful) because here in Canada Rabies vaccines are mandatory; you can be fined for not having your cat vaccinated for Rabies. However, Holly wasn’t given her other vaccines at the same time, so I’m thinking I’m just gonna say NOPE, and save my money. From all I’ve read, if Holly had shots the previous couple of years (for her, it would be three years total), she should still be protected against those viruses. Even is she isn’t……………the only other animal she comes into contact with is the birds on my balcony—-and there are glass windows between them!!!!!!!!!! You’re right, I’ve learned a lot!!!!!!!! Now I just have to convince the vets that I know what I’m talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Yes, I’m VERY excited to get Holly onto Steve’s supplements……….I keep checking the tracking info, but they haven’t arrived in Canada yet. And we won’t get mail on Monday because it’s Thanksgiving, so hopefully Tuesday or Wednesday if I’m lucky. Until then, I’ll just keep Holly going as best I can. She actually seems more alert today; not so lethargic and sleepy. Whether it’s the D-Mannose or the extra fluids I gave her, I’m not sure………but I like it. Just hope she pees soon, so I can stop worrying!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope all your furballs are doing okay now that they’ve got their correct supplement dosages. Take care of yourself, Joanne (and your babies!!!), ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 10, 2014 at 8:23 pm #

            Hi ruth

            well I didn’t see any furballs when he puked…doc explained they can be farther down the tract. anyway, tomorrow all will get some fur ball remedy except moose.

            You know, he has been doing so well. yesterday, he ate 2.5 cans of food and great bms. Today, 2 cans and now diarr. I sure hope I can figure out why. I changed up the last suppls to later at night. When He has diarr, I tend to rest the bowel and not give him too much more food. but, I have to try and figure enough so he wont puke. When I fed him this am, he was so hungry, he ate. I wont let him just eat. I program his food out so he wont over eat. I am sure steve or dr g will have some ideas.

            I guess because he has been so sick, he may have times when he slides back. and I should look at the over all picture. But, I just want him to get well.

            calliope hasn’t had a bm either in a couple of days..but I figure that she hated the other dry food and so I gave in and let her eat royal canin so.. I think ceasar finally went cause I saw two small ones in the box. Neither cat acts constipated either. I will watch over them.

            Sometimes, I remember back how much easier it was when I only had two or three cats. Its hard with so many. But, I wonder how my friend does it.. She has a rescue and fosters 35 cats. I don’t know how she does it.

            Just keep an eye on holly.

          • Ashley October 10, 2014 at 9:11 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            THIRTY-FIVE CATS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??! Oh my gosh………..she must have a HUGE house!!!!!!! Just out of curiosity, how many litter boxes does she have…………and how much litter does she go through??????? I thought six or seven cats would be confusing—I wouldn’t be able to remember 35 names!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I’m SO SORRY to hear Moose had a relapse. You said that he was really hungry this morning so he ate; Holly used to inhale her food, and then have a stomach ache afterwards (she looked like she was in pain). To keep her from eating her food too fast, AND to get her to exercise a little, the vet had me separate each meal into 3 or 4 dishes, and put them around the apartment. This way she was kind of “hunting” for the food, rather than just gulping it down. It helped a lot, since she was only getting a tiny bit in each dish. I’m wondering if, when Moose ate this morning and was so hungry, if he gulped in a lot of air? I can’t really see how that itself can cause diarrhea, but maybe being so hungry he had a lot of acid in his stomach, and then eating so fast got too much food in at once……….I don’t even know if that makes sense. I know if I’m really hungry but eat too much or too fast, I have stomach problems. Maybe it’s the same with Moose? Is it possible Moose got into one of the other cat’s food?

            I can’t see you having all the cats together being the cause of Moose’s diarrhea; you said they were enjoying each other’s company yesterday. I would think if he was anxious about seeing the other kitties, he’d have diarrhea during or soon after the visiting. But I’m not a vet, so don’t take my word for it!!!!!!! Do you have any plants in the house that the kitties could get into—lots of plants are toxic to cats. Is it possible that whatever food you are giving the kitties has had a change of ingredients recently? That happened to Holly’s prescription diet back in the spring (of course Royal Canin didn’t announce it, I had to phone and find out!!!); she refused to eat the food at first, and when she finally tried to, she kept spitting out the kibble. I thought the food might be spoiled, but no, they just adjusted the recipe.

            Does the S/O food not make your kitties constipated? That’s what landed Holly in the hospital the first (and second) time; RC didn’t warn customers (they could have put a warning on the bag) OR tell the vets to warn us that S/O diets are constipating to cats prone to that problem. GEEZ, I’ll say!!!!!!!!!! It’s hard, when kitties keep changing their minds about the food they like!!!! I sent a cartoon to the vet’s office not long ago; it had a cat on it looking at a case of canned food, and the caption said, “My owner just bought a whole case of my favourite canned food; I guess I can’t like that flavour anymore!!!!” Yup, that was Holly!!!!!!! I hope Calliope and Ceasar don’t get blocked up.

            I can totally understand that you get upset, sad, and frustrated when Moose has a relapse; I’d be feeling the same thing!!!!!!! In fact, I HAVE felt that so often in the last few months, so I do know how hard it is. Holly finally peed tonight (after 22 1/2 hours since the last time); it wasn’t big enough for two days’ worth, especially since I gave her fluids today, so I’m wondering if the D-Mannose or the bentonite clay have something to do with it. I didn’t give her either supplement tonight, just in case. I DON’T want to have to take her to the ER on a long weekend………..triple the vet costs!!!!!!!

            Have you started using any new/different dish soap or cleaning products around the house that the kitties might be sensitive to??? Different laundry detergent or fabric softener? Anything scented? I have Multiple Chemical Sensitivity disorder, meaning I’m extremely sensitive to any chemicals with strong smells, plus most (if not all) chemicals in regular cleaning supplies (shampoo, soap, laundry detergent, etc.). All my soaps have to come from the health food store, and I only use vinegar and baking soda to clean around the house (I use vinegar for fabric softener as well). Is it possible that the kitties might be sensitive to some product you’ve been using? I REALLY wish I had some answers for you………….I know you’ve struggled so hard to keep Moose healthy. Maybe you’re right, and this is just part of stabilizing him. It’s good that you’ve got Dr. G and Steve to run things by, though………MUCH easier than trying to figure it out on your own.

            Just out of curiosity, how much butter do you give your babies for a fur ball treatment? I’m sure I’ll have to use some “lubrication” on Holly sooner or later; I’d like to toss out the Laxatone gel!!! Holly never acts constipated until the second or third day……by which time I know she’s in trouble. If she hasn’t pooped by the end of day 2, that’s when I start pushing the laxatone gel into her. I’m sure butter would be much safer (although higher in calories).

            I will definitely keep BOTH eyes on Holly; I think instead of doing the fluids every other day, I’m going to go back to every day while she’s still eating dry food. If I have to get more supplies at the vet’s office, I’ll do that……..they can’t be that expensive (the specialist gave me the first two weeks’ worth at no charge). I’d rather pay for fluids than a $1,000 vet bill!!!!!!!! And I’m sure Steve’s supplements will help, too. I’ve got to remember to give myself lots of time when I need to re-order them; I didn’t realize at first how far they had to come!!!!

            I hope you and your babies have a good night, Joanne. Try not to worry too much, and get some sleep!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care. Give your babies a hug for me!!!!!

            Ruth

          • joanne October 11, 2014 at 8:56 am #

            hi ruth

            in the middle of crisis.
            have figured out why whiskers is puking..wrote dr g and she agreed too. am going to back up vet in a little bit cause doc is closed. will see what selections they have. Dr g did suggest rc for whiskers. he ate it before and didn’t puke. he just got tired of his food. at least I know, I gave him some rc dry for now.

            per the fur ball meds, I give about 1/2t twice a week. also, just wanted to let you know that dr mercolla has a pet site with dr becker. That is where I learned about spurgree which is wonderful for coats. google dr mercolla or dr becker.

            I am waiting on steve now…I asked dr g if she thinks there is a link between the luxolite and mooses bowel…..I will call him if I don’t hear back on email. Mooses stool is now setting up like it always does, it goes from thick pile to the formation of an actual bowel…

            then the company that I buy ceasears food from is out of stock on rabbit. I have a tiny bit left. I tried some other favors and even tried nv rabbit. hates it. So if I cant get rabbit, my plan is to cut the wet in half for the day and do dry ur which he likes and adjust calories according. Calliope eats mostly dry anyway…She had gone in a few days…But today she did. she didn’t like the other dry and didn’t enough to poop..

            Moose never bothers plants. I had a cat who ate my plants. No changes in anything except whiskers food. Here I am with all these problems today. I am just trying to deal with each on as I go.

            But Ruth something just tells me, that the luxolite is doing even more for moose than anything. we have increased the fc to 3/4t….and then the diarrhea flairs up. Also doc told me to use bagbond on his ears for chapping and they are starting to feel better. Jim knew all about that from growing up on a farm…Jim really has a way with animals. There is a kitty that comes to see us…We know it belongs to someone…But this cat lets jim hold him and love him. I told jim, I didn’t think I could handle another kitty. He is a big greay just like moose was…

            Even doc has noticed how jim has a way with animals. When whiskers got sick and we couldn’t handle him, I called jim and he came right down. doc was amazed. Jim has worked wonders with ozzie. He is nothing like that cat that came to me from being abused by that woman who ran a rescue. My friend in ark with the 35 cats told me how people get hard. Jim is very amazing. She has breast cancer and is still teaching. Whenever I find out about products etc, I tell her. I also told her about my holistic md who does phone consults etc. He is very amazing. People come from all over. anyway, back to my friend, she took ozzie and dolly when I got sick. Her friend came and picked them up… She has a build Victorian house and has made many rooms for the cats. I don’t know how she does it, but she did ask me once, if I had to would I take a kitty from her….depending on her health..I said I would.

            She just thought ozzie had the most precious face…She enjoyed him. Dolly came from her and that was how I met her. I adopted dolly from her. Her friend brought dolly to me. So I have adopted from other states and have met some great people along the way.

            Well, I will be off shortly to exchange foods…the places I buy food are great too. they have worked with me. Petco where I buy the natures variety and wellness have been very kind to me. not problems returning food. I like them a lot. they have gone out of their way locating the food for me. going from store to store.

            So, when you wonder why, its like playing detective. But, I think the luxolite has more to do with moose than anything else. and now I know that whiskers is puking because of the food. and I don’t know what the hell I am going to give ceasear for wet food if hounds and gatos stop making the rabbit.

          • Ashley October 11, 2014 at 9:39 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            I’m SO GLAD you figured out the cause of Whiskers’ puking………….just wish there was an easier answer, so you wouldn’t be so stressed out!!!!!! Hopefully the back up vet will have some of the food you need in stock.

            About the Luxolite—that’s the bentonite clay, right? It is also a “detox”, getting rid of all the bad stuff in the body. Maybe Moose’s diarrhea is just that—he’s eliminating the toxins that have built up over his illness, and stimulating his immune system??? You said that you increased the dosage a little……..is it possible to decrease it a tiny bit—not the amount you just increased it to, but maybe only half (ie, if you increased by 1/4 tsp, increase it only by 1/8 tsp instead)??? Trust me, I know how hard it is to have to play around with dosages of medications (did that for months with Holly’s laxative, and had to fight between diarrhea incontinence to constipation). I REALLY hope Moose’s bum starts to feel better!!!!!!!!!!! Something I did for Holly when she had diarrhea is use a q-tip and put a bit of baby rash cream (I just use the generic brand from Food Basics—a 500g container is $5.00) on the red/inflamed area, and just inside the hole where I knew it was sore. That stops the acids from burning the skin.

            Jim sounds like the “cat whisperer”!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m SO GLAD you’ve got him in your life, helping with your babies!!!!!!!!!!!! You’re so lucky to have an AWESOME guy in your life!!!!!!!!!!!! (and I don’t say that lightly—most guys get an F- in my books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

            I can’t believe your friend is still working with all those kitties, even with cancer!!!!!!! Wow!!!!!!!!!! She’s got a heart of gold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I was actually going to suggest Hound and Gatos rabbit for Ceasar…until I got to the bottom and saw that’s what you were feeding him. That was Holly’s favourite, too; however it’s got a lot of phosphorus, which I’ve read is not so good for kidney issues. If you can’t find a suitable food, see if you can get Nature’s Logic Rabbit; it’s a little more expensive, but Holly LOVED it. It’s a little controversial, in that it doesn’t come with added vitamins; their philosophy is that the meat has all the vitamins a cat needs. It says on the can not to feed this diet exclusively (because it doesn’t have the vitamins…….I’m thinking they’re just covering their butts), but maybe until the Hound and Gatos comes in you could try it.

            I REALLY hope things settle down in your home, Joanne…………..and ALL your kitties (AND YOU!!!!!) feel better/less stressed out soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Take care, ’cause I care (and thanks for the info about the butter!!!!).

            Ruth

          • joanne October 11, 2014 at 11:21 am #

            Hi Ruth
            thanks for the advise…I wrote to dr g and let her know the people at vs said to increase moose up to another 1/2t of luxolite for now….Steve is out and luke said he would send him an email. I also sent him one too. We shall see if its the luxolite that is making such a difference with him. When I was giving it in the late afternoon, I noticed no diarrhea..Then when I switched times, I noticed no puking except at night or early morning… So now I have noticed by giving at night, He started getting diarr around 5.50 6.00 etc….This am his bowel was starting to set up.

            I bought some hounds and gatos dog rabbit. I wrote to dr g and included a list of ingredients for dogs and cats. One big difference is the taurine. I do suppl marios nv rabbit with it…I will see if I can let ceasear has the dog rabbit with suppls taurine for now. The store is out of stock on cat food and ceasear hates everything else.

            I got some royal cainin and just fed whiskers. I just checked…he ate a 1/2can just like that. I will see if there is any pukng.

            Oh please, I just hope I am on the right tract per my cats now. Get whiskers squared away and then get ceasar and moose squared away…..thanks for the tip on butt cleaning. I have been just taking some warm water cotton to clean him up.

            My friend is truly amazing. I just don’t how she can do all of that. She too does a lot of holistic care as well. Now, I am going to try and catch up on chores…I am tired at night and just flop into bed.

            Between both of us, we know what its like to take care of sick cats.
            I will let you know how things are going.

          • Ashley October 11, 2014 at 11:36 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            Thank you SO MUCH for the update on your babies!!!

            I REALLY hope their stomachs and bowels all settle down, so that they (and you) can get some rest. I’m glad you contacted Steve and Dr. G about the Luxolite and the dog food. The food ingredients are the same, but you’re right—the taurine is missing. Good eye!!!!! Hopefully Steve and Dr. G can figure out what’s causing Moose’s diarrhea.

            I usually use unscented baby wipes to clean Holly’s bum; that works most of the time, but when I know her bum is sore (after her stay in the hospital, being given all those laxatives, her bum was cherry red!!!!!), that’s when I put the cream on (and only a little bit, ’cause if you get too much it will get on your furniture, carpets, everywhere……and it’s hard to clean off).

            My heart goes out to you, Joanne!!!!!!!!! Tell all your babies that Holly said “No more puking or diarrhea—give mommy a break for a few days!!!!” And give them all hugs from me!!!!!!!!

            I’ve got to go get some groceries before the store closes for the weekend. I’ll talk to you later tonight. Take care of yourself, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • Ashley October 11, 2014 at 7:25 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            I hope you and your babies had an uneventful, stress-free night!!!!!!!!!

            Just a quick email for now. I found something online that might explain Moose’s diarrhea, while looking for help for Holly. It was in catnutrition.com. I know you don’t feed raw/ground food to Moose, but if he’s extra hungry and isn’t having to chew, the food goes down faster……..

            “feeding ground food “encourages speedy gulping,” the food arrives too rapidly into the cat’s stomach and doesn’t provide time for digestive acids to be fully excreted – potentially causing indigestion or irritation.”

            Just a thought.

            Anyway, gotta go feed MY little monkey. At least she let me sleep in an extra half-hour today. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 11, 2014 at 9:02 am #

            Hi again

            I tried to feed moose raw and he just didn’t want to eat it. It was stressful and I just stopped… Yes moose is hungry, so I mash the wet food up. I give him so much wet mixed with suppls and his vtit. when he finishes that , I give him the balance of wet for that feeding. Then we wait and I give him his sulfur. then I wait again. finally I give him his second part of the can…So now it takes about two hours or so for him to eat one can of food. Then I wait until afternoon and feed him again the exact same way… Then I have been saving the last of the suppls for his bedtime feeding. At that time, I give 1.5 with suppls first in a tiny bit of food, then I wait and give 1.0 oz for the night. (that is a total of 2.5 cans.

            Will let you know what steve suggests.”thanks for thinking of me with that information. and yes, that is one of things dealing with moose. Dr g suggested smaller feedings more often too.

          • joanne October 11, 2014 at 5:16 pm #

            Hi ruth
            I talked to steve. Mooses diarr now makes sense. Steve had me increase his dosage up to 3/4t three times a day. Moose had a bad one on the floor. I called steve instead of email…We started talking and I told him this all started when we told me to increase. He said go back to the last dosage. I am not going to give him feline comfort tonight. I am going to keep him on the luxolite 3x a day for now. I am going to start the fc tomorrow and will send steve an email per his progress.

            Just wating on dr g to let me know about the dog hounds and gatos rabbit. Whiskers hasn’t puked. So one problem is resolving. I just hope everything goes ok. When I overfed moose and worked out a feeding schedule the diarr stopped to. Steve says fasting is good too.
            I hope moose doesn’t have cancer…That would just be the worst. Whatever happens I know that I have done everything I can for him. But I am thinking positive and saying everything will be ok. I started increasing his dose on wed night and then on thur the diarr started. and it has continued to today sat. so keep him in your prayers.

          • Ashley October 11, 2014 at 5:43 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I will DEFINITELY keep Moose in my prayers—ALL OF YOU are!!!!!!!!!!!! And I hope he doesn’t have cancer, either. From all you’ve told me, all you’ve done for him, you HAVE done your best for him!!!!!!!!! You’re an AWESOME kitty mom…………just keep believing he’ll get through this. I’m glad you got a chance to talk to Steve personally—that’s one awesome company!!!!!!!!!! I’m hoping the dosage decrease will help firm up the stools. You said you’re waiting for Dr. G to get back to you about the H&G food; has Moose been eating at all since you ran out of the cat food? Maybe if Dr. G doesn’t get back to you soon, try contacting the Hound and Gatos company? Just to warn you, the guy who is the head honcho there was a little defensive when I talked to him, but I believe he means well. When I emailed him (and called the company), he got back quite quickly. In the meantime, I will keep your babies in my prayers………..and you too!!!!!!!!!!

            I emailed Steve myself a little while ago. Even with the sub-q fluids I’m giving Holly, her pee amounts are still decreasing. I wasn’t sure if it had to do with the D-Mannose or the clay I’m giving Holly, or if she really does still have urinary problems (even though her bum has stopped stinking (two full days now!!!). I don’t want to take her to the ER (especially on a holiday weekend), but if he thinks I should, I will. For now, she IS still at least peeing…….it’s just decreased in amounts both yesterday and today. If the pee amounts get any smaller, I will definitely take her to the ER. Looks like we’re both going to be on kitty nurse duty this weekend!!!!!

            If you feel like talking more, feel free to send me an email; I’ll be up for another 3+ hours, or longer if you need someone to “talk” to.

            I hope your babies all feel better soon……….and don’t have any more stomach or litter box problems. Take care, ’cause I care Joanne.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 11, 2014 at 6:11 pm #

            hi ruth
            Thank you so much for just being there for me. Don’t worry about how much holly is peeing..What I learned is how much water goes into her. She can only pee out what she has taken in. It would be nice if she would pee more. Female cats generally don’t block like males, I mean they can, but most of the time its males due to their plumbing. After that surgery, they had to castrate whiskers in order to make a bigger pee hole for him.

            Mario doesn’t pee as much as whiskers either. Whiskers drinks more water. The vet should show you how to feel holly’s bladder. If its small and soft yippie. Doc showed me, but I don’t trust myself. The tec can feel the bladder and even feel for stool too. If you don’t see holly go in and out of the box frequently, that is a good sign too.

            I told steve you hadn’t gotten your package…He said it can take up to 2weeks to get to Canada. So you are half way there.

            d mannose is wonderful…it really does help with bladder problems. it helps the irritation.
            Now if we can just get moose cat on the mend, that will be great. I honestly believe the problems started by increasing the dose. It was right after that. Steve thinks so too. keeping records and logs pays off.

            I just don’t want him to loose any of what he has gained. I think this is going to take a lot longer than a month with moose. Maybe after three months, he will be feeling better. At least he is hungry and I am giving him very small amounts of food more frequent.

            Since this is the weekend, I will probably hear from dr g on Monday. Then I will update her about moose too. I have to take all the food back to doc and change it out again for whiskers. Steve told me to take moose off the forta flora now. So I get to take that back to doc too. What credit I have wont last. they never do. I will have to update her too.

            I checked online and everywhere is out of hg rabbit…But, I have decided that I am going to cut the serving down for now since they never eat it all anyway. I have figured out how many calories each needs. I am hoping that dr g will ok the dog food with taurine suppls… I asked her if I could use the same amount I do with Mario.

            You know Mario use to have a heart murmur. The vets I took him to heard it. And then one day it was gone. Each of them listened and couldn’t hear it again…I told them dr g put him on extra taurine and cq 10.(10mg)

            I will wait and see how moose does. I wrote steve and let him know no fc tonight. Again, thank you for being there for me…It really does help to know that you are out there. And I know you know what hell is like having to worry about holly too.

          • Ashley October 11, 2014 at 7:32 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Sorry I didn’t get back right away; I thought I had a problem with Holly, and had to keep my eye on her. Every time I touched her she flinched and backed away; she wouldn’t even let me pet her…….she might have pulled some muscles yesterday when she tried to jump from her cat tree to one of the window ledges; the blinds were closed and she didn’t quite make it—she landed on a table, filled with a cup full of pens/pencils and knocked over a glass of water. She didn’t fall completely—her right side was on the cat tree and window ledge, and her left side fell onto the table before I caught her. I’m REALLY hoping she’s okay inside. She was running around last night and earlier today, and she’s still eating, so I’m hoping it’s nothing serious.

            Thank you SO MUCH for telling me not to worry about the decrease in Holly’s pee. I have increased the water I’ve been putting in her food (she still doesn’t drink out of her dishes or my glass—I use Britta water, too), and I’m still giving her pumpkin–so that’s more water. I had asked Steve if maybe the clay was sucking the water out of her. I was VERY surprised not to have Holly’s bum stinky after just one day on the D-Mannose!!!!! I’m glad I didn’t wait and order it from Steve (I will next time, but thought Holly needed it fast). I have heard that males block a lot more than females………which is the number one reason I got a female; my friend had a male cat with exactly those problems, and I never wanted to go through that with my baby.

            I never thought to ask the vet to show me how to feel Holly’s bladder and colon—THANK YOU for that idea!!!!!!!!! That would take a LOT of the stress off of me, just knowing if she’s okay or not!!!!!!!!!! They often have a hard time feeling for her colon, though, because she’s got such a big belly. I always thought her colon was down at the bottom of her belly/pouch area (duh!!!!), but the vet Holly saw when her primary was away showed me it was just below her ribs. Still, even she had a hard time feeling the colon because of her waist line.

            Yup, I agree that the logging pays off!!!!! And you’re right, it does sound like the increase in supplements was the cause……..at least the timing is right. My fingers are crossed that by decreasing it Moose goes back to pooping properly. It’s been a long road with him, but I’m glad you got to talk to Steve. And thank you for telling him I didn’t get the supplements yet………I wasn’t expecting two weeks for delivery. I guess I would have if I’d realized where the company was located!!!

            How come Steve told you to stop the Forta Flora? Isn’t that probiotics? I would have thought he’d need that more than ever right now……….shows how much I know!!!!

            Yes, I’ve found with Holly that giving her smaller meals more frequently works better, too. Some people say to feed cats twice a day only, but I think she was getting indigestion from eating so fast when I fed her less often. This way, even if she inhales her food, it’s not enough to make her sick. I’m glad it’s working with Moose, too.

            Doc actually sells Forta Flora? Gee, my vet’s office (and all I’ve been in) only sell stuff from C.E.T. or Virbac, or Hill’s or Royal Canin. No health products available (except the toothbrushes!!!!). I’m glad you can get some of your supplements without added shipping.

            Yikes, everyone is out of rabbit??? You know, the same thing happened with Tiki Cat brand chicken…….even now, you still can’t find the chicken in any of the stores, and on Amazon.ca they said it would be a 3-5 MONTH wait. That’s when I switched to Hound and Gatos. As long as H&G doesn’t start importing rabbit from China; the owner of the company didn’t sound like he’d do that (he sounded like he cared too much about the animals to put Chinese products into his food), but I’d make sure it still says “American” Rabbit on the label when you finally get some. Maybe call the company and ask when they’ll be getting more in.

            Hopefully Dr. G will get back to you soon, so Moose can have his food back. I did read that taurine is good for PEOPLE’s hearts……I thought it was just for kitty’s eyesight though. I’m glad you don’t have to worry about a heart murmur on top of everything else!!!!!!

            I REALLY hope you get some rest, Joanne, and that your babies will feel better by morning. I’m glad I could be there for you…………..but thanks for being there for ME, too!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t have anyone to listen to my kitty issues (who WANTED to, anyway!!!). I’m SO GLAD I found you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take care of yourself, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 11, 2014 at 9:27 pm #

            Hi Ruth

            steve said his flora was much better in this product I am giving moose. thought too many products too. Well, it was 5 hours since mooses last bm and he let loose on the floor lumpy thick goo. I gave him 1/4 of fc tonight. Will wait and see what happens in the am. I think I will give him 1/2t in the am and see what happens.. If I have to reduce and build him back up I will. I can see that he needs the fc….I just hope by increasing the dose from when he was doing so good, doesn’t mess him up.

            Ozzie hurt himself and I had to take him in. Don’t know what happened. the vet gave him a muscle relax shot and he felt better. That vet really did like ozzie. I think he was hinting he would like to have him. Ozzie needs to be with us. he has been through his own hell too. Its just so hard trying to deal with sick cats. I am tired and worn out. I worry and worry. Jut like you. I don’t remember in the past that cats were so hard to take care of. But when you have a lot of cats and a few of them get sick at the same time, its horrible. whiskers will be ok. He will be on a regime. dr g will let me know about ceasar. And hopefully moose will be ok.

            tonight I was looking at Mario. Somehow, he had scratched himself pretty good below his head towards his back. I am going to put some hydrogen prox on it and see how it does.
            well don’t worry about getting back to me at a certain time…its ok..

            I am going to bed and when I get up, I hope that moose will not have crapped on the floor. the nightmare has returned.

          • Ashley October 11, 2014 at 9:48 pm #

            Oh NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Poor you!!!!!!!!!!!! Poor Moose!!!!!!!!!!!! No wonder you’re worn out!!!!!!!!!!! I was thinking as I read this last email, you were going to give all your kitties a fur ball treatment—did Moose get the butter, too??? If so, that might be the cause of the diarrhea. I’m so sorry that Moose is having such a rough time right now. There were times I actually considered putting a diaper on Holly when she couldn’t control her poop……….but I didn’t think she’d keep it on. What I started doing was putting old sheets on the floor where she used to “hide out” under the dining room table, and her beds are always covered in baby blankets but I put human pee pads underneath the blankets so the beds wouldn’t get stinky. What they normally give dogs for diarrhea is cooked white rice…..do you think that might help him, maybe with a little cat food mixed in?

            Your vet was sooooooo good with Ozzie. The vets around here don’t seem to believe in pain medication; Holly fell off the dresser not long after I adopted her (she had a hard time with her back legs for the first month, probably from being cooped up in a cage for two months), and I thought her ribs were sore so I took her in to the vet. He didn’t feel anything wrong, but I knew she was in pain…..but he never even offered pain meds. Even with Holly’s urinary infection, I asked about pain meds, and was told the antibiotics would make her feel better so she didn’t need them…………and yet I KNOW she was in pain for well over a week. But “the vet knows best” (see me laughing), so don’t question them!!!!

            Poor Mario……………….gee, if it’s not one baby, it’s another!!!!!!!! They’re all fighting for your attention!!!!!! I hope he’s okay. How did you even find it with his fur all over his body???

            Please get some rest tonight, Joanne; I can tell you’re exhausted, you don’t even have to tell me. I would be, too, with all you’ve been through the last few days!!!!!!!! Not to mention the worrying!!!!!!!!!!!! I’ll do the worrying for both of us for a while—how’s that!!!!!!!!!! I hope you all have a restful, stress-free night. Take care of yourself, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 12, 2014 at 11:02 am #

            hi Ruth
            no furball for moose. when I got up this am one thick pile on the floor and one in box. So tha means the 1/4t I gave him last night helped some. I gave him 1/2t breakfast with luxolite and around 10. he will get the same and then in the evening…there has been no diarr or puke anywhere. So keep your fingers crossed. I need to let steve know too.

            no more puke from whiskers either. Now just waiting on dr g. on the weekends, she doesn’t answer emails….unless er…So I expect she will answer me on Monday about hounds and gatos.

            I went to bed and must have crashed. I was so tired. I just have to tell you both whiskers are Mario are asleep at the base of my chair. They are both spread out on their sides. Mario has his front leg wrapped around whiskers. It is so cute and both are sound asleep.

            These are the times that make it all worth it. And for sure I hope moose mends. For now, I am buying four kinds of wet and two kinds of dry. Hard to even imagine any would eat the same foods.

            I hope that holly gets to feeling better. I cant believe the vet wouldn’t give her something for pain. That vet listened to me and I showed him on ozzie where he hurt. He said he is in pain. You cant let those guys boss you around. Some of them are just so pig headed (nothing against pigs) I guess I have had it done to me in the past and got sick and tired of it. I had enough fights with texas vets to last me a long time. And furthermore, when they cant figure anything out, then its time to put the animal down. I am sure they would have said that about moose…And now you can see how it bothers me about lily. that was before I realized all the help I could get from the net.

            when I went to the backup vet yesterday to get food for whiskers, I met a woman in tears…her kitty 10 years old has kidney failure. I gave her a list of sources including dr g. I told her to call me and I would be glad to help guide her too. I said you cant give until you have explored all your options or you will live with if only I had….

            thank you for giving me a few more suggestions…if there is something, I haven’t thought about, I will jump on it… With Mario, I saw a little place without fur. I got down on the floor with him and found it. I put hydro per. on it… So he should be good.

          • Ashley October 12, 2014 at 12:41 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Before I respond to what you said about the kitties, I’ve gotta tell you, you made me laugh SOOOOOO HARD…………..about the vets being pigheaded (nothing against pigs)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I needed that today!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GLAD that Moose didn’t have any more diarrhea (not so good about the poop on the floor, though!!!!), and Whiskers hasn’t puked!!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!! Nurse Joanne is making her babies better again!!!!!!

            Awwwwwwwwwwwww………..I wish I could see Mario and Whiskers curled up together!!!!! Yes, that’s the kind of thing we work towards, that make all the hell worthwhile. I’m glad they have each other. Quite a few years ago, I looked after a friend’s cat while she was in the hospital; Shazam and Ashley hated each other at first, but by the end of day three, they were sitting side by side on the couch, grooming each other and sleeping together!!!!! They still had their fights, but I did get pictures of those special moments. If I could afford the vet bills, I’d love to get a playmate for Holly………..but just getting Holly back to health is all I can manage right now.

            Believe me, the next time (if ever) Holly gets a urinary tract infection, I am DEMANDING pain meds to go with whatever else they prescribe!!!!!!!! It wasn’t until I was doing more research online that I realized that other vets DO prescribe pain killers for this problem. Jeez, to think of all the time Holly has been suffering!!!!!!!!!!! GOOD NEWS, though, she seems to be feeling MUCH better since I started the D-Mannose and the clay!!!!!!! No more stinky bum, and you should have seen her tear across my living room this morning!!!!!!!!!!! She was in her chair beside mine, and saw a fly on the balcony door window………..and she was OFF!!!!!!!!!!! And she caught it, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought it was outside, and she was trying to get at the fly through the glass, but it was inside, and she cornered it at the bottom of the window!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wouldn’t let her eat it though…………I was afraid of where it might have been and all the germs it was carrying. It’s the fastest I’ve seen Holly move in about a month, though, so that in itself tells me she’s feeling better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I’m REALLY GLAD you got to that lady whose cat has kidney disease………before the vets made the kitty worse!!!!!!!!! Steve should pay you for all the business you’re bringing him!!!!!!!! (Just kidding). I got an email back from Steve today, telling me that it’s just the Psyllium and clay that are soaking up Holly’s urine, so I don’t have to worry about the output. I told him he made my day/weekend/Thanksgiving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was pretty sure Holly was on the road to recovery when she peed a whole lot and pooped this morning, but to have Steve confirm that it’s the supplements decreasing her urine just made me that much happier. NO MORE ER FOR HOLLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And hopefully I won’t have to go for that ultrasound or urinalysis or bloodwork, either. I can’t wait to show the vet how well Holly is doing WITHOUT their prescription diet or antibiotics!!!!!!!!!!!! The vet told me last week to let her know on Tuesday (she’s away for Thanksgiving weekend) what I decided to do about Holly (’cause she told me to take her back to the specialist if she’s still having problems); I’d like to see her face when I tell her Steve’s supplements cured Holly’s problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Na na na na na na!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope Dr. G gets back to you first thing tomorrow, so your baby can eat his rabbit. I can’t believe you have to get so many different kinds of food………….then again, I’ve only got one cat, and I was buying all different flavours, ’cause one day she liked lamb and the next day she wanted chicken and so on. What I started doing was opening the cans and dividing them up into meal-sized portions in little containers, and freezing them. Then each day I could give her a different flavour without having to worry about the food spoiling. It actually worked well (except when I forgot to take the food out of the freezer early enough!!!!!). You might want to try that if you’re allowed to use the dog food rabbit, since it’s a much bigger can. If you don’t have little containers, you can use ice cube trays and once the food is frozen put all the little food cubes into a freezer bag (that’s what I do with Holly’s canned pumpkin).

            Something else crossed my mind when I was thinking of all your kitties getting sick from eating the pumpkin………did you get the PLAIN pumpkin, or the pumpkin pie filling (it has all the spices for a pie added to it)??? The plain, pureed pumpkin is what the kitties are supposed to have, but I’ve also read that sometimes one brand tastes better than another. I use Stokely’s, because that’s all the stores near me sell, but I heard that Libbey’s is supposed to be better. It doesn’t matter to Holly—as long as it’s FOOD!!!!!

            I hope you and the babies have a good afternoon………..sounds like they are on their way to better health!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 12, 2014 at 3:20 pm #

            hi Ruth

            so glad to hear that holly is doing so well. I just want to warn you when you tell the vet, they will flip out. They will say sh@@ that is negative etc. Better yet, unless they ask, say nothing. DMann is wonderful. Whiskers stays on it…And it is for urine and iinflamation of the bladder. I use it with acidifier for whiskers. the more acid, the better than crystals don’t form.

            On the pumpkin, I used an organic pure pumpkin that I bought at sprouts. With moose, it was coming out the way it went in…With whiskers, more diarr and ceasar too. All the cats are going fine…Just waiting on moose now to have a bm…This is how it started before…I noticed he was holding his food in for a long time…There was still some diarr in the beginning. but then I adjusted his feeding too. Moose gets hungry in between feedings cause I weight the food out.

            Good idea on dog food rabbit…I know my cat cans eat a can..So, I would get two feeding. out with an ounce left over. I have heard about freezing foo in trays…when I did raw, it came frozen….I would set the servings out and let them defrost…Sometimes I would forget and have to zap in the micro wave on defrost. I remember when I started feeding raw. whiskers and Mario just loved it. the vet in texas tried to tell me they were going to get sick. I explained to him as Dr G had explained to me. And I told him if he had a problem, to sue the makers. my cats never got sick either. However, I had a couple get sick on science RX and now whiskers got sick on it.

            I am so glad that steve is helping you…You know a lot and just needed a someone with knowledge in holistic to help you out… I need to get an email off to steve later. I was just waiting to see what moose is going to do now.

            Nothing in funner than to show an allopath vet how wrong they really are…Oh yes, the same applies for doctors who pretend to know and then bully us.

            Holly has you for now. So she isn’t alone…Gotta love the pigs…

          • Ashley October 12, 2014 at 3:59 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            That’s TWICE today I had a good laugh!!!! Yup, gotta love those pigs, AND I can’t wait to see the looks on the vets’ faces when I show up with a healthy Holly!!!!!!!!!! Good idea, don’t mention the supplements. If Holly were to ever get sick again, they’ll likely blame what I’m giving her—either the supplements or the raw diet. And that’s exactly what I said to the specialist, when she tried to tell me Holly was going to get sick from salmonella or ecoli—lots of cats are getting sick off of commercial dry food, often due to salmonella; I figure me cleaning my own chicken is a whole lot safer than eating some of the crap in the dry food out there!!!!!!!!!! If I’ve never gotten sick from preparing my own food, I can’t see Holly getting sick from eating it either!!!!!

            When you say “the more acid the better”…….don’t you have to be careful that it’s not TOO acidic, or else Oxylate crystals can form?

            I’m glad you weren’t using the pumpkin pie filling for the kitties……..but I’m sorry the pumpkin made them so sick. Thankfully, Holly doesn’t mind the taste, and doesn’t get sick from it either.

            Holly used to get hungry between feedings too (I also weigh her food now), but now that I’m giving her mostly raw, AND I’ve increased the Psyllium, she’s doing much better. I’ve increased the raw to 3 meals a day, and only give her the dry Wysong for her 4AM meal (I put it in an “exercise” ball—a plastic ball that has little openings for the kibble to drop out—she has to “exercise” and roll the ball around to get her food). This way I can give Holly the clay at her 4PM feeding, away from the rest of her meds and supplements (couldn’t do that when I was giving her dry food at that time). Sometimes it takes me a while to figure things out, like when to give which medication and supplement, but once I’m into a routine, it finally goes smoothly, and I just do it without thinking. Even brushing Holly’s teeth has become a routine for me—I do hers just before I brush my own. I used to only brush Holly’s teeth a couple times a week (basically when I remembered to do it); but last March the vet’s office offered a seminar on pet dental health………that scared the crap out of me!!!!!!!! I’ve been brushing her teeth every night since!!!!!

            If you use ice cube trays for your canned cat food, I’d make sure you use different trays for your water—sometimes you can’t get the smell out of the plastic, and sometimes the fat stains the plastic.

            I’m glad I’ve got Steve in my corner, too (AND you!!!!!!!!!!!!). I got an update on the tracking; my supplements should arrive by October 20. They left Richmond, BC this morning, so hopefully soon…………I’m not an optimist, though; Canada Post has failed me more times than I can count (I should have their number on speed dial!!!!). But my fingers are crossed. The package has come a long distance already, in a relatively short time; hopefully it will keep coming.

            Your kitties are so lucky to have such an AWESOME mommy, who looks after them so well, and does everything she can to make them better again!!!!!!!!!!! I know a few people who just treat their cats like a “thing” or “something to be tolerated” rather than part of the family; we aren’t on speaking terms any more, specifically for that reason. I’m glad your kitties have a better mom than that!!!!!!!

            Let me know what Dr. G and Steve have to say………..and I hope Moose doesn’t hold in his food too much longer!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • Ashley October 12, 2014 at 7:29 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            I hope you and your kitties had an uneventful night, and I hope Moose is feeling better today!!!!

            I don’t think I need to take Holly to the ER after all!!! She peed quite a bit early this morning, and just got done pooping……….enough for the last two days she didn’t go!!!!!!!!! Trust me, I was doing my HAPPY DANCE while I cleaned out the litter box!!!!!!!!!! Maybe that’s why she didn’t want me to touch her last night—too full of poop. At least it came out without an enema (and WITHOUT the prescription diet, I might add!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

            Gotta go find myself some breakfast. I’ll keep checking my emails if you feel like talking; hopefully you have a better, less stressful day today!!!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 12, 2014 at 11:06 am #

            Hi Ruth

            that’s great with holly…appears whatever you are doing is working. no diarr yet from moose. I will be checking after I post this…

            Some of my cats don’t go bm for a day or too. I think it depends too on how much they eat. At least whiskers is eating and going and no puke…later on I will be giving fur ball med except for moose.

            let me know how you are doing…its a lot of stress and worry taking care of sick kitties. but when they are well and happy, its all worth it.

          • Ashley October 12, 2014 at 3:08 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Somehow I missed this last email—it got filed before I read it.

            Yes, Holly is on the mend (touch wood!!!!!). Hopefully it will stay that way.

            I’m so thankful that Moose hasn’t had any more diarrhea, and Whiskers isn’t puking. So we’re BOTH doing something right!!!!!

            Yes, there is LOTS of stress when trying to get sick kitty’s well again (don’t think I could manage your position, with a whole bunch of kitties sick at the same time!!!!!!). But you’re right………when they are healthy and happy, and chasing birds and bugs, it makes everything okay again.

            I just saw this as a news flash on TV, and went online to see what the heck they were doing?!?!?!?!?!!? This should make you laugh……….I already sent the link to Steve; figured he might have something to say, too. I wrote in a comment already; just waiting for it to be approved.

            Should Canada allow contraceptives for dogs and cats?

            Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/lifestyle/should-canada-allow-contraceptives-for-dogs-and-cats-1.2050762#ixzz3FyEXvfdC

            Only in Canada!!!!!! Good grief!!!!!!!!!!

            Hopefully the rest of your day goes as well as the first part, and your furballs keep getting better!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 12, 2014 at 5:36 pm #

            hi ruth..that was pretty amusing…who would think of that. I guess someone who has a lot of time on their hands.

            Moose’s appetite has slowed down. no bm today. But this happened just like this before when he started uping the dosage. I hope he will eat a little more tonight…he needs to have his last suppl..

            I will let steve know what is going on..There has been no diarr all day tho. So that means he is absorbing his food. Its not coming out of him. Whiskers hasn’t puked either. Well tomorrow, I should hear from Dr. G too.

            Hope Holly is feeling good now…Don’t worry about cats eating insects. They have been doing that forever.

            joanne

          • Ashley October 12, 2014 at 5:51 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Thanks for the tip about cats eating insects; I know Holly has eaten them in the past, but with her health so fragile right now, I just didn’t want to add any new “food” to her diet. ha ha

            With Moose, have you tried rubbing his belly or his back? When Holly hasn’t pooped in a day or so, I start doing that, in the hopes that it will push the food along. Not sure if I’m getting the right spot or not………but she likes it just the same. Hopefully he’ll poop soon, so you can stop worrying. Guess we really ARE a lot alike!!!!!! And you’re right, at least the food isn’t coming out as fast as it’s going in, so he’s absorbing some of it………maybe he’ll gain some weight. Sometimes when cats don’t have an appetite, if you warm up the food a little (add a bit of hot water, don’t microwave it), it makes the smell of the food stronger, and cats are drawn to the smell. I hope he gets his appetite back. Maybe he doesn’t like the food he’s eating……..maybe he wants his rabbit back!!!

            Yeah, I couldn’t believe it when I saw the TV news, they were saying that a vet recommended contraception for pets; all I could picture were cats and dogs wearing condoms!!!!!! The vaccines are WORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!! And let me guess, the drug companies are the ones making the money (well, along with the vets!!!!!). Good grief!!!!!!!!!!

            I don’t know what happened with the other email that came back to you………..I got it earlier today. Computers!!!!!

            Well, hopefully the only surprise you get tonight is Moose pooping………..no more puking or diarrhea from ANY of the kitties!!!!!!!! And hopefully Dr. G calls soon so you can start feeding Moose his rabbit. Take care of yourself and all your furballs!!!!

            Ruth

          • joanne October 12, 2014 at 6:39 pm #

            hi ruth

            you know when moose was eating natures variety rabbit that is when he got the pancreatitis. Doc had me take him off of it and change the food. He just continued puking and puking. Then after that the diarrhea started. We got the pancreatitis under control. Then I put him on the beef venison and lamb by wellness. Later on I read chicken in it. So I put him on turkey duck and he just loves it… I cam going to check on him and at least make sure he gets his last dose of suppls even if he doesn’t want to eat. I mix it with .5oz of food. I will give him two more vits too. I tried to tub his tummy area and he wanted no part of that. I remember steve saying, how do you feel when your tummy hurts. I got the point.

            its been a rough weekend. But, I will leave doc a message tomorrow and bring back all the food again. This is hard work.

            So now, I am going to give the other kitties some more food and go to bed. I hope that all goes well for you and Holly. I am just so excited for you. Just a few little changes and look at Holly now. amazing about holistic med. And what is so bad is how these so called vets who practice western med, are so narrow minded.

          • Ashley October 12, 2014 at 7:41 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Yikes!!!!! Moose sounds a lot like Holly…………you finally get one health problem fixed up, and then another one starts!!!!!!!!!! I’m so glad you had Doc, Dr. G, and Steve to help you through it all. It’s been a rough weekend, but you made it………and all kitties (and the nurse!!!!) are still in one piece!!!! Do they know what caused Moose’s pancreatitis? Was it the food that Doc told you to change? I don’t know much about that disease (thankfully!!!!).

            I hope you and your babies have a better week, starting tomorrow with Dr. G’s call. You all deserve a break!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Holy smokes, you should have seen Holly tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I gave her her last meal around 10:10PM, and after that…………..she was off like a horse out of a race stall!!!!!!!!!!! We play a game where I chase her; I put my hands out in front of me like I’m going to grab her, and then slowly walk towards her, saying “I’m going to get my kitty!!!!”………and she just tore through the apartment tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again, I haven’t seen her RUNNING like that in a VERY LONG time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I chased her for a good 5 minutes or more, from one room to another; she finally got pooped, though, and I don’t want her to puke, so I left her alone. It was FUN to see her with so much energy!!!!!!!! DEFINITELY don’t see that on dry prescription crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Amen about the vets………….and I can’t wait to show them how much Holly has improved!!!!!!! I don’t understand it…………they know how to read (I’ve seen them!!!!), so what’s so difficult about believing that “natural” supplements—something the body needs and uses anyway—work better than synthetic, potent, lethal drugs??????? Sure, some companies are only in it for the money, and if the product is made in China I wouldn’t take it either!!!!!! But if you do your research and choose your companies well, the natural supplements have to be better than the drugs………….just look at Holly as an example!!!!! She was given two antibiotics; the first one did absolutely NOTHING, and she was still in pain for six days. The second one MAY have started to work, but it made her puke her guts out, so the vet made me stop the meds after three days. And then she got worse again for a week. After ONE DAY on D-Mannose, she improved DRAMATICALLY…………..and has kept improving. So what’s wrong with going “natural” instead of “prescription”?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??! I may have to confront Holly’s vets on this at some point (when I know Holly is stabilized for sure!!!!!!). GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope you all have a good night’s sleep (furballs included!!!!), and have a wonderful week ahead. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 12, 2014 at 8:39 pm #

            HI ruth
            Wow, I am so glad to see the change in Holly. And as you see her get better etc…it makes you feel so good for her, but at the same time, it pisses you off to no end what those vets are putting our animals through. They are making them and us sicker. Before there were antibtio., there was colloid of silver. I have taken that and so have my kitties. and it works.

            Just what do steroids do besides mask symptoms. There are some things western med is good for…like surgeries and broken bones heart attacks etc. But when it comes to preventive med, they have nothing. They offer Vaccines, but people still get sick after taking them.

            Holly wouldn’t be running around if she didn’t feel good. At first, before I really irk the vets in texas, I didn’t tell them much. When suppls worked, they refused to believe it until they saw with their own eyes that whiskers rodent ulcer went away. Marios blood sores healed up. And had I found vs, I would have saved lily. They just wouldn’t corporate with me. Dr. G found so many products to try on lily. Some did work for awhile. And it was wonderful….But like the article said, the body generally goes back.

            What I have experienced is this, when something other than what they say happens, believe me, they discount it… They don’t understand. But the biggest issue of all is this, they don’t really know how to treat things. When I took Mario to that specialist, he had his eyes opened by dr piticiarn’s book that I took with me. He said he had never considered so many things in that book. And he said he was tired of hurting the animals. So he decided he needed more schooling to make a difference. It was really neat to know I had met someone who was so willing to expand his mind.

            In the years past, I don’t remember animals getting so sick or people either. And now, its like you see all these adds, you need a vaccination for this or that. Your pets do to. and even if they never go out, they still do. How much damage are they causing… And if they work, why are so many people still getting sick from what they got vaccinated for. And look at Mario, he got a rabies shot and got so sick. I remember way back with lily, she got sick from a vaccination and I stopped. I stopped all together. no more. If Mario got another vaccine, it would probably kill him.

            So now, between all the good food you feed holly and the suppls and no more vaccines, she is turning around. I think your vet is going to figure out something when they stop hearing from you….

            well, moose had a bm. It was over 12 hours. It was a small pile and in the box. It was thick and I think trying to form up. I wrote steve and let him know. Now we just have to wait. And I did leave about one more ounce of food down for him. He has eaten about 2.5 cans of food today ….

          • Ashley October 12, 2014 at 9:48 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I’m SO GLAD Moose finally pooped………..even if it wasn’t quite formed; at least you can go to bed and not be quite so worried about him. And it sounds like he at quite a bit today; but maybe his tummy is still a little upset. Hopefully by tomorrow he will be back to his normal self.

            I laughed at what you said, about the vets are going to figure out something when they stop hearing from me!!!! One of the comments Holly’s vet made the last time I was in her office was that I was bringing her in too frequently for constipation problems; well, I think it’s pretty safe to say that ain’t gonna happen anymore (fingers crossed!!!!!!!). At least I know what to do to get her going again, and not wait until it’s too late. And with all the running around she did today, that should help her colon a lot, too; I was told part of her constipation problem is lack of exercise………she got plenty today!!!!!!!

            I read online somewhere (maybe from catinfo.org) that the number one reason pets are getting sicker and more often, is because of all the dry food they eat. The dry food dehydrates them, and once that happens, all the rest of the organs don’t function properly. On top of that, most of the stuff in the pet food stores and grocery stores are based on corn, wheat, and/or rice…………food that cats don’t need, food they would NOT eat in the wild. That’s one of the reasons I was so adamant about keeping Holly away from the prescription crap………….it was mostly rice and corn and by-products………….and I saw where by-products come from, and refuse to let Holly touch them. Also, I know for a fact that the pet food companies tell owners to feed WAY TOO MUCH FOOD!!!!!!!! I was feeding Holly the amount of food for a 10lb cat, and she kept gaining and gaining weight. Now that I know how to calculate the calories, and I know what Holly needs, I was OVERFEEDING her by 150 calories per day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t know who sets the nutritional information out at Royal Canin or Hill’s, but either they don’t know how to do math, OR they want obese cats so they can bring in the cash when they get sick from other illnesses!!!!!!!!!!!! When Holly started eating the Fiber Response the first time, the technician went and calculated the calories for her before I left the office—-over 350 calories per day; at the time, she was only eating 240 calories per day; if I hadn’t said something, Holly would have become the Good Year Blimp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And even ON THAT 240 CALORIES PER DAY, SHE STILL GAINED WEIGHT!!!!! It’s all the corn and rice and SWEETENERS that were making her fat!!!!!!! I know someone who lives in our building, and she’s got six cats…………and they all eat Whiskas dry cat food!!!!!!!!!! She rescued every one of them, and I know she has a big heart and loves those kitties……..but she thinks her kitties are doing just fine on Whiskas. I’ve seen them—all but one of them looked healthy and happy, they were playing and running around; the newest addition to her family hadn’t been spayed yet, and was really aggressive to the other kitties, so Denisse kept her in a kennel while the other cats were in the living room, and later put the other cats in the bedroom so the aggressive kitty could roam around. And I don’t get it, either—-her cats look healthy, despite their diet; yet I try to buy the very best, healthiest food I can find for Holly—and she ends up at the vet all summer!!!!!!!!!!! Don’t understand!!!!!!!!!! I asked the woman who runs the Global Pet Food Store I buy supplies from; she said that some cats just do well on crappy food, where others don’t do well on any food.

            And you said you know lots more people are getting sick too. A lot of it is what we eat, but a lot of it is also our environment. I live on the corner of two busy streets; the cars are lined up for miles during rush hour, with all that pollution coming out of their cars and the buses. When I clean my windows every spring, I have to use Sunlight dish soap (I can’t let my skin touch it, though because it burns my hands); Sunlight is the only soap that will cut the BLACK GREASE off my window screens and windows!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I moved in here, I was a total neat freak, dusting and vacuuming every week, making sure everything was clean; what I couldn’t figure out, though, is from one week to the next the dust on my furniture was BLACK. For the life of me I couldn’t understand where it was coming from. It wasn’t until a few months later that I realized it’s all the pollution from the cars coming in the windows and landing on my furniture!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Holly and I are breathing that in every single day!!!!!!!!!! On top of that, I am surrounded by people who smoke on their balconies, and that smoke blows right into my windows—whether they are open or not. Also, I don’t know if you have this problem where you live, but a lot of people—especially this summer—renovated their homes to include either a fireplace or a wood burning stove. When people burn wood, they are letting out thousands more toxic chemicals than cigarette smoke…………and that not only goes up into the environment, it also goes into people’s houses and into our lungs. My apartment windows are in direct line to at least two chimneys that spit out wood smoke all winter long………….and if the wind is from the south, I have to keep my windows closed; even then the wood smoke still comes in. Between the wood smoke and the cigarette smoke—breathing in all those chemicals every day—I have to take Gravol at least once a day to keep from puking. I’ve written to every level of government, from the city councilors to the premier to the prime minister, and even the health minister………….there are no bylaws that protect my right to breathe clean air, and smokers are allowed to smoke in their own homes even if that smoke is coming into MY home and making me sick. Everyone has washed their hands of the issue, because the government made some secret deal with the tobacco companies………..they each get kickbacks from all the sales of cancer sticks, so no, they aren’t going to make people stop smoking!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway, that’s my rant for the day!!!! It’s true, though, what we breathe in, what we eat and drink, whether we exercise or not, it all plays a part in whether we live a healthy life or not. And then if you’ve got doctors who insist you need such and such a medication………….yeah, whatever. I’m with you, don’t tell them until you’re well enough to prove to them you didn’t need their drugs!!!!!!

            My parents get the flu shot every single year………..and my mom has gotten sick more often than not. I laugh when I see people lined up around the blocks to get their flu shots, in a panic because they might run out………….and yet they aren’t even using THIS YEAR’S strain of flu in the vaccines—their using the strain from LAST year!!!!!!!!!!! They can’t predict what strain is going to be the worst from year to year, so they just use the strain that was worst last year…………and cross their fingers. My doctor tells me every year that I need a flu shot because I’ve got asthma and my immune system is compromised, but I haven’t yet got the flu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The last time I had the flu was in GRADE 5!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was 32 years ago……………..and I’ve never gotten a flu shot!!!!!!!!!!! The doctors get so panicky that people are going to get sick………….well, it’s the damn vaccines that are wearing us down!!!!!!!!!!!!! But they’re also making money off the shots AND off the people coming in sick BECAUSE OF the shots…………..so it’s a lose-lose situation……….unless you don’t get the shots!!!!!!!!

            Yup, I do agree, that vets discount kitties getting well on natural supplements………..well, she would have gotten well on her own if we had just left her. Yeah, whatever. You wanted to give her this and that and make her eat crap. I gave her what her body needed—not what you needed to give her. Big difference!!!!

            No, Holly wouldn’t be running around if she didn’t feel well—that was her for the last month. Today was AWESOME to see………….it’s like I had my 2 year old cat back!!!!!!!!!!!! But I’m not going to tell them what I’m doing until I know 100% that it’s going to stay like this…………otherwise they’ll just turn it around on me and say the supplements made her sick. Or the raw diet made her sick. People eat sushi all the time and are still walking around!!!!!!!!!!!! Heck, in China, they eat fish that is still ALIVE AND KICKING!!!!!!!!!!!!! And they’re afraid I’M going to make Holly sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I tried Colloidal Silver on Holly a couple of times, but because I didn’t know how much to give her I was just guessing; I finally stopped because I was afraid the vet was going to say I made her sick. Still have the bottle, though.

            I can’t believe I was ready to take Holly to the ER for an ultrasound, a blood workup, and another urinalysis, all because the vets didn’t know what to do with her. That’s well over $1,000, not counting the consulting fee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m glad a $40 bottle of D-Mannose plus a free sample of Redmond Clay did the trick!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You know, I think people wouldn’t be quite so put off by the vets if they didn’t charge an arm and a leg for each test. I mean, give me a break—why does an ultrasound cost $500???????? Or a urinalysis $300???? Or blood work $300??? Do these vets think we have money trees in our backyards?!?!?!?!?!?!? I mean, I’ve got insurance, THANKFULLY, but the consult fees, the exam fees, the fees to read the test results, plus all the taxes—they aren’t covered, and these vets know I don’t have the cash to pay them, and my Visa is at it’s limit…………..but still they insist she has these tests. Thank goodness for Vitality Science!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Anyway, I’ve got to get to bed……….the words are starting to blur on my screen!!!! I hope you all have a VERY good night, Joanne. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 13, 2014 at 10:46 am #

            hi ruth…
            I haven’t noticed a lot of dust in this place, but at the old place it was nasty. reason we moved too. I heard from dr g said ok on dog rabbit with 500mg taruine.

            Whiskers is going on uro cleanse tomorrow. so will be taking him off d mannose cause uro cleanse has it as the main ingred. (lela said about 60%.) I wrote steve and asked him what doseage he would suggest. I also let him know about moose.

            I read about vaccines and I am wondering if whiskers and moose’s problems could have resulted from them…Marios did. I read it takes seven years for the vaccine to go away. And I read animals don’t need yearly vaccines. Its bad enough that whiskers has to eat royal canin. I tried good food and he got sick with a ph 9 and crystals.

            You know after going to the holistic md, I learned that one coke can depress the white blood county for 5 hours…that is our immune system. He has me taking 1500 mg of vit c to help strengthen my immune system. I also take cq10 300 mg of that. Mostly everything I take is a suppl with exception of thyroid. I eat well too…very little sugar or carbs that kind that convert to sugar. I like having beans as a protein base plus a fiber. I don’t eat a lot of meats either. So much of the food supply here is polluted. they have used antibitiocs in the food and now wonder why bacteria are resistant. When I use colloid of silver my holistic md tells me what to use. And doc will let me know how much cs for kitties. I didn’t know how much either. But cs was used long before antibotics and its safe..

            You might be able to google it and see too. or ask steve.

            You know when you are able, have a consult with dr g…she would be able to tell you all that. I know right now, you cant….But as holly gets better your visa will go down too. I still am wondering how many useless tests and proceedures we are put through so that they can make money.

            We are sick from dirty air too and nasty crap that goes into the water. And then there are the gmo foods yuck….Does anyone know for sure what is going in their bodies. And then all the toxic drugs and vaccines.

            People need to wake up. Its no wonder cancer is on the rise…

            today moose started his new eating plan…I got to thinking why does all this happen at night. And then I thought, I wonder if I feed him to much at night. So I laid out a guide for him and ran it by dr. g and steve. Dr g said to keep him on that plan for weeks.

            Well I will let you know..

            stay safe.

          • Ashley October 13, 2014 at 11:14 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            I’m SO GLAD Dr. G okayed the rabbit for Moose!!!!!!!!! It’s good that you’ve got her to run your eating plan by. I thought his problem was that he was hungry, though, not over-fed. Maybe he’s afraid of the dark, and that’s why it happens at night??? Or does he see other outdoor kitties through the windows at night??? I’ve heard that can really upset an indoor cat—having other cats coming near their territory. Or are there squirrels, raccoons, foxes, skunks outside at night that he might be upset about? Where I used to live (in the basement of a house), we had three raccoons who would always raid our garbage cans. My living room window was just above ground level, and right in front of the garbage cans……….I had a front-row seat to all the commotion!!!!!!!!!! I even shined my flashlight in their faces—they just looked back at me and continued to scrounge for food. The house owner wasn’t as thrilled as I was, but I thought it was fun to watch!!!!

            I’m with you on the meat supply…………I can’t eat beef or pork because I can’t digest it properly; I used to eat mostly chicken and fish, but after the nuclear plant disaster in Japan a few years ago, I’m afraid to eat much of the fish. That leaves chicken and turkey, but most of my chicken goes to Holly’s food; it’s too expensive to buy for me to eat. So, like you, I eat a lot of beans and chic peas, and eggs and cheese as well. Yogurt is too expensive unless it’s on sale, so I hardly ever buy that. The milk I buy either goes on my cereal or in a cup of hot chocolate. I’ve cut down a lot on my sugar intake the last couple of months (no extra money for cookies or chocolate!!!!!), and don’t like a lot of salt……….except when my blood pressure is hitting bottom (it’s always been on the low side, but sometimes it gets too low); that’s when I know I definitely need some salt!!!!

            You’re right about all the tests for the kitties; I’m SO GLAD I was able to get some D-Mannose for Holly, rather than spending all that cash on unnecessary tests!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not only that, just putting her in the carrier anymore stresses her out like crazy (I’m guessing she thinks she’s gonna get another needle in the bladder), so she would have gotten worse before even getting to the vet’s office!!!

            You said once that one of your kitties (Mario or Whiskers?) was on D-Mannose……..do they stay on it every day, or do you just give it until the symptoms stop?

            Where you live, do they list GMO foods on the labels? I looked at my cereal boxes and the boxes of whole wheat pasta, but they don’t say anything about GMO foods. I heard on the News last week that companies don’t have to list if their food is GMO or not. Most people around here don’t even know what that means!!!!!!! And if it’s in OUR food, can you imagine what they use for pet “food”?!?!?!?

            If it takes SEVEN YEARS for the vaccines to wear off…………why the heck are vets giving them to pets every year?!?!?!??!?!?!? Money grab!!!!!!!!!!!! Instead of vaccines, they should be doing the test (titre) to see if that vaccine is still in their systems, rather than bombarding them with more drugs they don’t need!!!!!!!!!!!!! No more for Holly, that’s for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope Moose likes his rabbit food (just don’t tell him it was made for dogs—don’t want to give him a complex!!!!). And hopefully Whiskers does okay on the Uro Cleanse. I hope you have a good afternoon, Joanne. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 13, 2014 at 11:56 am #

            hi ruth…

            ceasear and calliope eat the hounds rabbit. I just located some more dog rabbit and it is being held for me. So I will be suppl with taruine. Whiskers will get uro cleanse every day. he use to get dmannose daily about 1/4t. Whiskers eat royal cainin so now. Ceasear and calliope will eat rabbit, but they want the dry royal cainin so. doc said its ok. calliope is the last cat I am working with to get off eating so much dry. Its hard and I have to make her eat wet. Mario ozzie and dolly eat wellness grain free indoor dry and natures variety rabbit wet. I have them eating about half and half. Moose eats wellness turkey duck. So I buy four kinds of wet and two kinds of dry. Ceasar and calliope refused to eat the wellness dry.

            In the stores in the states, the labels say non gmo. I wonder if life is going to exist on planet earth in the near future.

            I don’t eat a lot of dairy either. Lactose intolerant…So I buy alternatives like coconut milk and almond milk. Eat a lot of veggies. Don’t eat a lot of grains either. Just seems we continue to hear that this or that and then something else is not safe to eat. Corporations have polluted this planet.

          • Ashley October 13, 2014 at 1:26 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I’m SO SORRY I got your kitties’ diets mixed up………..you’ve got so many foods for all the cats, I don’t know how you keep them straight!!!!!! I’m REALLY GLAD you were able to get another store to hold some rabbit for you; that’s awesome!!!! It’s weird how some kitties PREFER the Royal Canin instead of healthier food. I’ve got a friend whose cat is the same way; she’s tried the expensive healthy varieties, but Abby prefers Friskies!!!!

            I wish the labels in Canada would say whether the food is GMO or not………….but I just assume they are anyway. There isn’t a lot I can do about it, since I can’t afford organic foods anyway (WAY overpriced here). I looked at the almond milk once, but it’s got vegetable oil in it so I put it back on the shelf. I’d rather drink milk. You’re right, it’s hard to know what is safe to eat anymore!!!!! I used to eat a lot of almonds…….until I heard they spray jet fuel oil on them to pasteurize them (see http://wholenewmom.com/reaching-out/almonds-health-salmonella-food-pasteurizatio/) Now I refuse to touch nuts anymore!!!! It’s crazy………..all these big companies are messing up our food, our land, our water, our air……..our lives!!!!! No wonder they’re looking for life forms on Mars…….they need another planet for humans to live on when they’re done messing this one up!!!!!!!!!!!

            Holly was running around again this afternoon, playing “hide and seek” with me (peeking out from behind the air purifier and then pulling her head back); she’s so cute when she’s playing and happy!!!!!!!!!!!! She’s cute ALL the time, but I’m glad I’m seeing the fun side of her again!!!!!

            I hope all your babies continue to improve, with Doc’s and Dr. G’s help!!!!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 13, 2014 at 7:15 pm #

            hi ruth

            I have good news..Moose finally went. It was huge like the size of texas. All was formed. I have kept to the schedule of feedings. He gets so hungry now in between feeding. I just wrote to dr g to let her know. I may give moose 2.0 oz of food instead of 1.5 to get him through the night. Before when I just fed him etc, he would leave food and I would sort of add a bit more to it. I am not sure of all that is happening. But I am happy that the plan is working.

            Isnt it nice to see the change in Holly. You might want to share your good news with steve. I plan to. He told me his products have a 98% cure rate….And I believe moose is going to get better.. Dr. G said moose has weeks ahead of him for recovery…So the dose is good and the feeding schedule is good too. I just cant believe how much came out. I was saying to jim before he went, I wonder where all that food is going. The last time he went was last night with a massive amount of diarr. So I think I was overfeeding him. I just think his tummy can only digestive and move so much food at a time….Then is slows down and he is able to absorb the food. And then it finally comes out.

            Don’t worry about all the diets around here. Sometimes I wonder I do it… Just think if having seven cats is crazy, I wonder what it would be like to have seven kids… I will look at the link you sent in a bit.

            down here, they stopped selling almonds in the barrel because people would stick their hands in and touch the nuts…I don’t buy anything that is sold in bulk. You just never know. For that matter, one wonders what one is getting despite the label…Who knows how true the labels are too.

          • Ashley October 13, 2014 at 8:02 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            YAY!!!!!!!!! All right, Moose!!!!!!!!!!!! So, just how big IS Texas?!?!??! I’m SO THANKFUL he didn’t have diarrhea again—you’re on the right track with his supplements and feedings. Can you imagine what his poop would have looked like after 5-6 days, like Holly was having?!?!?!? The size of North America????? You know, when Holly was on the Fiber Response prescription food, her poops were ALWAYS “human” sized (not just the amount either, but the diameter as well)!!!!!!!! I really think the food wasn’t being digested……..it just went in and came out again (although it came out a whole lot stinkier than it went in!!!). That’s why I wasn’t surprised when I started the raw diet and her poops were so small………’cause that’s what Lisa Pierson explained on her website. I just wasn’t prepared for Holly to hold the poop in for so many days (and neither were the vets). I even sent the info on “poop” from Lisa Pierson’s website to the vets, to explain to them the difference in poop coming out of a cat fed with grains and crap as opposed to a raw or canned food diet. It was shortly after that when she told me to stop listening to the advice from websites and pet food stores, and start feeding Holly a veterinary prescription diet that is appropriate for cats with constipation. I can’t imagine what she’s gonna say when I tell her I’ve even added natural supplements to her food!!!!!!!!!!! She’s going to wonder how Holly got better WITHOUT her food or antibiotics, or even the tests……….I’ll have to think of something to tell her.

            You said Moose gets so hungry between feedings; would it help to feed him the same amount of food but give it to him in more frequent feedings? Not that I want to mess up your schedule even more—I know what it’s like to have a kitty begging for food all the time. Does he wake you up in the middle of the night? I’ve started giving Holly a little less food during the daytime feedings, and then adding that to the last meal of the day………….in the hopes that she won’t wake me up so much at night, or early in the morning. My bedtime meds make me so groggy that when she wakes me up in the night (or for her 4AM feeding), I’m stumbling around like I’m drunk or something. I’d like to get rid of that early morning feeding altogether, but I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t get ANY sleep if I did!!!!!! It’s like she’s got an internal alarm clock (or she can read the time), because it’s usually quite close to 4:00 when she wakes me up every morning. But I love her SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH…………..so I’ll get up for her.

            Are you kidding—7 kids?!?!?!?!!?!? Not on your life!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I used to babysit when I was younger, and I was ALWAYS glad when the parents got home…………..glad they weren’t mine!!!!!!!! I’ll take seven CATS any day!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have you ever watched the TV program, 19 Kids and Counting—glad I didn’t grow up in that family…………no privacy!!!!!! I’ll take four paws and a tale over two hands and feet any day of the week!!!!!!

            You know, Holly was sleeping quite a bit today again, but when she was awake, she was alert and playing………..and she was my happy little girl again!!!!!! I can’t believe the difference in less than a week…………..and yet two antibiotics didn’t touch the infection!!!!! Steve is AWESOME………..and I’ve already started spreading the word to people I know who have cats; not sure they will buy anything, but I’ve been telling them about Holly’s miraculous recovery, so they should realize I’m not trying to pull one over on them. Plus, anyone who knows me, knows I wouldn’t try to get them into anything that didn’t work.

            I just realized that I didn’t give Holly her fluids today; maybe that’s why she was sleeping a little more. How do you know if your cat is getting dehydrated? The first time I took Holly to the vet in the spring for constipation problems, the vet said she was dehydrated THEN………..and I didn’t even know it; they gave her fluids that day, as well as an enema. The second time she needed fluids, the reason I knew was because she hadn’t peed for a day and a half; no blockage or infection, just dehydrated, because she was eating dry food and not drinking enough water. I’ve added more water to her food lately, since she still refuses to drink water on her own. The vet still hasn’t given me a good reason for that.

            I WILL let Steve know how Holly is doing; and I’m REALLY happy that Moose is turning around, too!!!!!!!!!!

            I buy things in bulk once in a while (the bulk store isn’t very close to me, so it’s not frequent); when I scoop out the food, though, I make sure I stick the scoop right to the bottom of the barrel…….so if anyone’s had their hands in it, I won’t be as likely to be eating their germs. You’re right, though, who knows what’s in the food, even if it’s packaged. I won’t buy the generic foods that are packaged by the stores themselves, though………..I don’t trust them to use safe packaging methods.

            I hope you and your furballs have an AWESOME night………….with NO litter box or puking problems!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care, Joanne, and give your babies a hug for me.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 13, 2014 at 8:27 pm #

            Hi ruth

            Just wanted to touch base…I am going to feed moose his last feeding for the night. per dr g she went over the schedule too. texas is a big state… If you want to know if a cat is dehydrated, you are supposed to pick the skin up and if it doesn’t rebound very fast, it means dehydrated. but I could never tell anyway…I would take my kitties in.

            doc says to put about 1t of water in the food. That helps…Moose likes his food soupy but now is learning to eat it not so soupy.

            Your vet is really going to be in a pickle. what can she say. Holly is doing so good. when you take holly in, don’t say a word…Just let the vet talk and let her assume all the crap she has done has worked. Then when she is done talking drop the big one on her. Lisa P is very knowledgable and knows more than most vets about food. Doc has her articles posted and urges her patients to go to her website.

            There again such close minded tunnel vision which proves how little they really know and refuse to open their brains up to things that work.

            Moose has already had two cans of food. So now, he is going to get a little bit more to hold him through the night and hope he doesn’t puke from empty tummy syndrome. I will wait for dr g to respond…I also sent steve an email and let him know too.

          • Ashley October 13, 2014 at 9:06 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I sent Steve an email, too, and told him of Holly’s miraculous cure, and that she’s running around like a racehorse. He just emailed me back, saying it was good news. I’ll say!!!!!!!

            Yeah, I remember the vets saying how to pull on Holly’s skin to see if it rebounds or not……..but it all looked the same to me, both when she was hydrated AND dehydrated. Probably too much fat on her to tell. I’ll give her some more fluids tomorrow; I’ve only got enough for two more days, so I’ll have to see what the vet thinks about me continuing the fluids. She was only supposed to go for two weeks.

            I don’t know if you’ve read or heard this or not, but the sub-q fluids are in short supply this year, so you might want to stock up. One company shut down for renovations and the other company for maintenance……all this right before flu season in late 2013. I found these links online you might be able to use to save money on fluids or other prescription meds for your kitties: http://www.petmedicationcard.com/ and http://www.petdrugcard.com/index.html
            Apparently the sub-q fluids are cheaper at pharmacies than the vet’s office; I was going to use the drug card to save some money, but they only work in the States.

            Does Moose drink a lot of water on his own? I add anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4 of a cup of water with all Holly’s wet food; she never used to like so much water, but with all the supplements mixed in now, it’s not soupy like it used to be. I have to use extra water because of the Psyllium, too—if I don’t, it could cause blockages. Plus with the extra fluids, I figure I’m flushing out her kidneys, too.

            Wow!!!!!!!!!!! I can’t believe Doc actually urges people to go to Lisa’s website!!!!!!!!!!! That would never happen around here!!!!!!!!! The vets wouldn’t get paid for their prescription food or meds if they did that.

            My problem with the vet seeing Holly in good shape is, they ALWAYS ask me what I’m feeding her; no matter how much I didn’t want to tell them I was feeding holly a raw diet, I can’t lie—I’ve got such a guilty conscience that I wouldn’t be able to sleep!!!!!!!!! So I’ll hold off as long as I can without telling them about the supplements and diet; but if asked, I’ll tell them what I’ve been giving her. Still, they should be HAPPY that Holly is doing much better……….even if it wasn’t their prescriptions that fixed her up!!!!!!!!!! Well, that’s what I think, anyway; I’ll definitely let you know (I don’t have any upcoming appointments, so it might be a while). Holly was supposed to go back to the ER for a re-check in ten days after her last appointment, but considering the way she looks, I don’t think she needs the visit……..or the added stress that will only make her sicker again. I’ll wait until there’s a problem.

            I hope Moose’s stomach is okay tonight. After all the progress he’s made, I don’t want him to puke up all his food again. How can he way so little after eating 2 1/2 cans of food a day? Wow, that would feed Holly for 5 days!!!!! He must have a hollow leg!!!!!!!!!

            Good luck tonight, and hopefully there won’t be any problems. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 14, 2014 at 9:02 am #

            hi ruth

            yes moose drinks tons of water. I heard from dr g and she wanted to know about mooses thyroid. we had that done in march of this year. I am going to have doc send her the results, they were normal…dr g hopes moose is eating so well and going is because he if feeling better. he woke me at 5.30 he was so hungry. I fed him and after I post this to you, I am going to feed him again. just have to be so careful of not overfeeding him. this is hard because he gets so hungry.

            you know what ruth, don’t let the vet push you around. You just tell them holly is staying on raw food. And you tell them, all of the progress and you tell them you have her on suppls. If the vet said anything to me, I would simply say well with all the drugs and tests, nothing changed…and then I started a new regime and just look at holly go now. then I would say, being a vet means doing no harm and I would think you would be happy that she is doing so well unless you are so closed minded that you cant admit sometimes western medicine fails at some things. Don’t think I wouldn’t say it. I found it strange when the vets were asking me how dr g cleared rodent ulcer up.

            I tell any vet I go to that my cats are on holistic care. I don’t mince words…we have a new back up vet now…since moving.. I refuse to be pushed around for my own health and the kidlets. I also wrote to the lady, Deborah who’s kitty was featured in the post. She wrote me back and I thanked her so much. I also gave her dr g;s contact information too.

            Its just amazing to me how holistic vets are so open to suggestions… so just start practicing for when you have to go.. whiskers is off subq fluids more now. started his new vs product too.

          • Ashley October 14, 2014 at 10:08 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            Wow, you’ve got a hungry boy!!!!! He was still hungry after 2 1/2 cans of food?!?!? Must have been that Texas-sized bm last night…….emptied him right out, so he’s got more room for food!!!!!

            I’m going to TRY to stand up to the vets………just gotta keep thinking “I need to stand up for HOLLY”!!!!! I sent the vet and specialist an email, asking what to do about the sub-q fluids, if I should be continuing them or not; I only have enough for one more after today. I’d like to have some on hand, just in case Holly gets dehydrated again, especially if it’s on a weekend or holiday…………which is when these things tend do happen in our home!!!!!!!!!! And yes, I DO believe you would stand right up to any vet who pushed you around…………I can already imagine it!!!!!! Good for you……..wish I had your guts!!!!!!!!! I’m NOT going to let the vets put Holly on prescription food, though; I think they’e finally got that much. And if they say anything about the supplements, I’ll just remind them……..two courses of antibiotics didn’t touch the infection, where the D-Mannose made Holly a new kitty in just one day!!!!!!!!! So there!!!!!!!!! Not only that, a $40 supplement saved me $1000+ in vet costs, so tell me again what I’m doing wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!

            You’re right about the “do no harm” part, too…………I just can’t understand why they insist on feeding crappy food (heck, even SELLING crappy food), when I point blank showed them what was in it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe THEY’RE afraid to stand up to the pet food companies, ’cause they’ll lose too much money. Who knows?!?!?!

            I think the problem (or part of the problem) with my vet staff, they aren’t used to pet owners doing their own research and questioning the vets’ decisions. I think most pet parents go in, the vet tells them what to do, what to feed their pets, and all that stuff, and most parents just do it, no questions asked. I used to be like that………….I was too afraid to question Holly’s first vet; after all, he’s the one with the education and diploma. But when I saw what his food (the only food people should be feeding pets, because it’s been scientifically tested and their manufacturing site is spotless, blah blah blah) was doing to Holly’s skin and fur and weight, I started questioning. But that’s as far as I took it; I was afraid if I fed Holly something other than what he told me to, and if she got sick, he would blame me for it. Turns out he blamed me anyway, for Holly’s weight gain. He kept saying I fed her too much (even though I was feeding for a 10lb cat according to the packaging…………..which I now know is way too much). I kept getting ticked off when he blamed all Holly’s problems on me, and then at the end, he refused to take my phone calls, which is when I started looking for another vet. Now that I’ve done all the research about how cats are supposed to eat (lots of meat, no cereal), and I KNOW this diet is working, I’m a little less intimidated, and I’m not letting them put Holly back on dry crappy food. I’ve still got her on one meal of Wysong, but as soon as Steve’s products arrive, and Holly starts having normal, regular bm’s, I plan on taking her off the dry food, too. If it wasn’t for YOUR support through all of this, I wouldn’t have had the courage to go through with it all…………..or I would have backed down after a few arguments with the vets. Thanks to YOU (and knowing I’ve got Steve and his supplements to help Holly out), I think we’re going to be okay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just wish I could convince Holly to drink more, and I’d stop worrying about the dehydration problem. If I thought it would work, I’d get her a cat fountain; but I don’t want to spend all that money and have it just sit unused like her other dishes………….and something like that isn’t returnable.

            That’s wonderful, that you’ve been able to help someone else with kitty problems!!!!!!!! Maybe we should start calling YOU the cat whisperer!!!!!!!! I’m glad you were able to give someone else some hope, the way you have me; with all your experiences—from the crazy vets to the awesome ones, and all the kitties in between—you’d have a good book going there!!!!!!!!

            I hope the rest of your day goes well, Joanne. Take care of yourself and the kidlets!!!!!!!!

            Ruth

          • joanne October 14, 2014 at 5:56 pm #

            hi ruth

            sorry it took so long to get back to you. I had to go out and get food and change out food too. You are doing a fine job. And once you let the vet know you aren’t going to take their bs, things will become much easier. They are use to people doing as they say. People always refer and ask what would you do. I say, I will check with my holistic vet and let you know.

            It might be a good idea to check in and just make sure holly isn’t dehydrated….She is getting moisture from the wet or raw food. and you are adding a big more too. I heard one vet say to add salt to food. I thought are you crazy….I wouldn’t do that.

            thank you for the kind words. I just think I am tried of being bullied and pushed around. that is what I learned after loosing lily. Charlie died of asthma and nothing worked. it just got worse and worse. I even thought maybe he got bit by a mosquito and got heart worm. I will never know. It got so bad, he couldn’t breathe very well and was suffering. So I said good bye and cried. It was just too much loosing two cats within each other in 60 days. Before that, in oct of 2007 I said good bye to rassy cat who I had for 18.5 years…kidney failure…wonder a lot if I had known then what I know now. He had maybe two weeks left. And then in jan of 2001, I had to say good bye to howard and mew. Howard was In kidney failure and stopped eating because he missed rassy cat. And mew we found on the streets. She was sick from the get go. We did our best, but life on the streets took a toll on her. The first cat I owned was pussywillow. She was one of a kind. She was someones cat who didn’t take care of her. Jim and I took her from one of his friends. She had fiv but did real well until 12 years old. Then she went down hill with kidney failure and other things. What killed her was the secondary infections from fiv. We just adored her. I have often asked myself why so many kitties with kidney failure and I think because back then I didn’t know better with vaccines. I think all my kitties could have lived longer if I had known..

            I worry about whiskers and the royal canin food… Someone said today to me, that with crystals food isn’t the issue, its the acid of the urine. I am going to ask dr g what she thinks. But if that were true, then why did putting him on s.d diet work so well within ten days. Whiskers was on good food when he first got sick with crystals…And I did try after the surgery etc to put him back on nv…He had a nasty bladder infection. And then awhile ago I tried again with nv food and his urine was alkine and crystals again.

            I am proud of you for believing in you …you can let that vet know. and they are going to say a bunch of crap….just because they don’t believe in lisa p dvm that doesn’t mean that others vets agree with their opinions. Your are right, they wont rock the boat per drugs and their food. and just wait until they start pushing vaccines on you. The specialist I told you about in texas, after reading some of piticarins book was really impressed. He said he was tired of hurting animals and tried of vets with their steroids. He said that book changed his attitude. And then he told me to do everything dr g said to. So you see, its possible to change vets mind. When you say something about vaccines to them, ask them if they have heard of dr Richard piticarin. He has a dvm and a phd in immunology. So he isn’t some slouch as they may imply.

            Well Moose has one more feeding to go. He must be feeling so much better. don’t know when he will poop again. He just gets so hungry. Tonight I am waiting to feed him later so he wont wake me up at 5.30 again.

            if you doubt yourself, look at how far you have come since we met. Look at the improvements holly has made all because of you and your determination. Sounds like you are realizing your own self esteem. And as far as telling other people, its great to be able to know something that could help others too….

          • Ashley October 14, 2014 at 7:35 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Never worry about getting back to me right away!!! I LOVE chatting with you, but I know you’ve got a whole lot more responsibilities than I have; were you able to get all the food you needed??? I know it’s frustrating when you have to keep changing food, even if it’s not just because they don’t like it, but for their health. It still takes a lot out of you.

            I read online somewhere to add salt to the diet, too……and that kitties don’t get heart problems from salt like people do. And yet my friend’s cat died a few months ago from a heart attack!!!! I think I’ll skip the salt!!! I think that’s what is in some of the s/o diets, to get cats to drink more………but I’m not trying it.

            Honestly, Joanne, I don’t know how you survived, losing all those furballs—and so close together!!!!!!!!! You have such a HUGE HEART………..mine would have been so broken, I couldn’t look after another sick kitty; but you keep trying and trying. Your babies have an AWESOME mommy/nurse!!!!!!!!!!!

            All the cats with kidney disease…….there has to be more to it than the vaccines I would think, otherwise wouldn’t every cat have kidney disease? I know not everyone vaccinates their pets, but I got Ashley vaccinated every year, and she never had kidney or even urinary problems……..just colon problems. Maybe partly vaccines, partly food……….and maybe partly environmental toxins (lots of cigarette smoke, wood burning smoke, and pollution where I live)??? It would be interesting to find out how many vaccinated pets ended up with health issues, and then to compare which health issues they had, and see if there’s a relationship.

            I REALLY wish I had some answers for you about Whiskers and his crystal problems……..I honestly don’t know what to think. Holly’s went away after the S/O food, and haven’t come back (yet), but she’s had two urinary infections within a couple of months.

            Lisa Pierson says on her website that cats with urinary problems should have a wet food diet, high in protein, and low in phosphorus. I’ve also read that cats who have one urinary episode are likely to have more; and some breeds are more prone than others to develop urinary/crystal problems. I think you’re right, though—Dr. G is probably the best person to ask. All I know is from you and what I’ve read online!!!!

            I’m so glad Moose is feeling better!!! I’m wondering if maybe feeding him a higher calorie food (or higher protein food) would make him less hungry all the time, and you might be able to cut down on how much you feed him??? I know you’re feeding him a healthy food now, but is there a way to add more protein or even more fat to his diet, so that he stays fuller longer………and maybe gains some more weight??? Just a thought—but I’m not a vet!!! How often does Moose usually poop? I’m so used to Holly only going every few days, I can’t remember when she last pooped every day!!!!!!

            As for Holly and vaccines, I’m hoping the vet doesn’t even notice that Holly needs her shots next year!!!!!!!!!! And if she isn’t sick, I don’t plan on bringing her in……….I don’t know if I’ll have the guts to fight with them again!!!! I had a hard time fighting with them about the raw food diet………..and before that, the technician wanted me to give Holly a flea treatment for the summer—just in case I brought fleas into the apartment when I was outside. I figured, I had Ashley for 16 years and Holly for four years without that problem, why would I start now??? Not to mention, it’s a pesticide, which I am extremely allergic to—so I’ve got a good excuse for next year!!!!!!!! The shots, I’ll have to think of something.

            Thank you SO VERY MUCH for your support and encouragement with Holly; yes, I’m beginning to realize that I AM the one helping her get better……….but I couldn’t have gotten this far without your help!!!!!!!!! Just having someone to talk to, someone who understands and who has been/is going down this road………that makes all the difference!!!!! It’s a lonely road when nobody understands!!!!!

            I just got your latest email, so I’ll respond here.

            I am SOOOOOOOO SORRY about the setback with Moose!!!!! And he was doing so well!!!!! You said that he can go all day without pooping, and then has problems at night. What about adding some Pysllium to his diet to get the food moving a little faster during the daytime??? Maybe give it at night time so it can push the morning food out—that might even make him feel fuller??? Don’t be hard on yourself………it probably has nothing to do with you, but just that he’s still recovering. I AM sorry, though, that you’re going through so much stress; I wish I knew what else to say!!!! Maybe talk to Steve??? Moose wouldn’t have picked up a bug or something from the vet’s office, would he??? I’ll keep Moose and Whiskers (and YOU) in my prayers…………and I REALLY hope you all have a better night!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 14, 2014 at 8:06 pm #

            hi Ruth

            just heard from dr g…she went over the feeding schedule that I sent her…I thanked her for answering my email tonight. She is the best.

            She believes that moose cant handle a lot of food in his gut for now. And I need to space the feedings out evenely and just do 2.0 oz per serving. He is hungry right now and I am making him wait for awhile…I will give him one oz later before bed and that is it. I have him on the suppls from steve…And they have a lot of things in them… so I have to make sure my scale is accurate and watch the times…I cant give in to him wanting to eat before the times.

            See there has to be a reason that this happens at night. So if I keep the times and servings the same and evenly spaced out, that will help..

            You know if he hadn’t craped on the floor tonight and had just let that one in the box be it, things would have been easier to deal with. Its so frustrating. If we hadn’t increased his dosage, I wonder if he would have done better…. So many things go through ones mined. His dosage is back to where he did so well.

            There are so many things that could have resulted in our kitties getting sick. I mean I lost five to kidney failure. one to ibd and one to asthma… I just think there has to be a reason. And I am thinking food…

            whiskers really doesn’t have urinary infections… He has crystals and his ph gets too alkaline and then the crystals grow. I am going to ask dr g later on what she thinks about whiskers and food…. I had him eating nv wet rabbit when he developed crystals again. And when he got cyrstals in the beginning I had him eating raw food. I read that cats can be predisposed to certain conditions to.

            I hope that moose starts getting well…Its horrible cleaning diarr up …It stinks and its nasty. I am doing my best, and hope that he continues to get well. But am thinking, that stabilizing may just take longer with him…

            I really enjoy chatting with you too. thank you for just being there for me. Its so nice having support. When you mentioned fatty liver disease, Charlie got that. they had to put a feeding tube in him…He did recover…but I don’t think he was really ever the same. I was a nervous wreck trying to feed him…It didn’t work out and I rushed him to the er one night by myself in texas at midnight. The vet knew my vet..He said this cat should stay at the vet and you shouldn’t be doing this. He called him and Charlie went back until he got well. I did everything they did, but I think Charlie could feel my uneasiness. Maybe he got food in his lungs too. I don’t know for sure.

            It just ripped me apart loosing the kidlets. But, I know there are so many cats that need homes. I just wish I didn’t find all the ones with health problems. When whiskers got sick before the surgery, I took him to the er a few times just to make sure he could pee. I cant tell you how scary all of this was esp when I found blood on the floor. But somehow we made it through that one. Then we moved and ozzie got sick with a mucus plug and couldn’t pee. It was from stress. Well he didn’t have crystals.. So he didn’t need the surgery. I kept him on rx food for a long time…He is now on wellness indoor core and nv rabbit and he seems fine. Dolly had one uti…she was on rx food. the wet food gave her diarr and it messed up ozzies anal glands. Both have no problems thus far… Then Mario ate the toy and that was terrible. Another surgery, but now he eats wet nv…rabbit. Then ceasar had a uti…so he was on that rx food. Now he is eating hounds and gatos…Neither of those cats will give up the royal canin so dry. So, I am letting them eat it along with better wet. And whiskers gets about 1/3 cup of dry and one can of royal canin so. You know it would be so easy if the food wasn’t an issue with whiskers. But it just seems when he eats the good food, his urine turns alkaline.

            I read that cats that are overweight tend to develop fatty liver more along with diabetics. I think everything you are doing is working now. So many vets are unfamiliar with d mannose. Not the holistic ones tho…When you go to the vet, make sure you have a list of what she in on and a good description of each. That way, they can choose to look at it…I just hope hollys test come out perfect because the proof is in the results…

            well I need to go and check on moose

          • Ashley October 14, 2014 at 9:18 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I’m REALLY, REALLY glad that Dr. G got back to you right away!!!!!!!!!!! She IS awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I found some info that might help Whiskers; I’m sorry, I don’t remember all the feeding schedules of the kitties, but it says for cats prone to crystals, it’s best if they are fed small meals throughout the day, rather than a couple of large meals, and this keeps the urine acidic. Also, if Whiskers is eating a diet designed to acidify urine, DO NOT give acidifiers on top of that; I remember you mentioning acidifiers a few times, I just can’t remember which furball you were talking about (see, my memory is crap!!!). Anyway, the info is from http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2142&aid=2729 if you want to look it up.

            Sometimes it takes a few days for kitties’ stomachs to adjust to new foods or meds, or even going back to previous food or meds. I think that was half of Holly’s problem with her poop when I switched her to the raw diet…….I should have done it much more gradual than I did. Maybe Moose just needs a little extra time to get back to the old dosage of supplements??? I don’t know if you have carpet on your floors where Moose happens to have diarrhea; if you do, you might be interested in a product called FreshWave—it’s a natural deodorizer that is safe for humans and pets (I called, and was told they actually have a vet help make the formula); it’s a little strong at first, but after 24 hours, the smell is gone—both the deodorizer AND the diarrhea smell!!!!!!!!!! I tried everything I could think of to clean up Holly’s diarrhea after her first hospital stay and after enemas, but this was the only thing that worked. I get the liquid that you add to the washing machine, but it’s good to put in a steam cleaner, OR I have it in a spray bottle and just spot clean when I need to. I originally bought it to get rid of my neighbour’s smoke that has been making my carpet stink…………it worked within 24 hours!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING gets rid of cigarette smoke—-but this did!!!!!!!!! It’s made in the States, so you should be able to get it fairly easily (it’s hard to find around here), either online or at a vacuum cleaner store; here’s the link to the company http://www.freshwaveworks.com/store/pc/about-fresh-wave-d21.htm They also make other deodorizers, like a gel you leave out (maybe not so good around kitties), vacuum cleaner pearls (put in your vacuum cleaner bag and it deodorizes the air as you vacuum), and even spray air fresheners (I haven’t tried those). This is the one product that DOES NOT bother my asthma or allergies—any other “synthetic” fresheners can land me in the hospital!!!!!! If all else fails, I’ve also used just plain hydrogen peroxide in a spray bottle; too much of it, though might bleach your carpet, so you have to be careful. I didn’t have any bleaching problems with the FreshWave.

            You also have to remember that, most of the kitties you adopted, didn’t have a good life to start with. That’s what the vet kept telling me about Ashley, too. She was found wandering the streets, and was only 4lbs when someone brought her to the shelter; we have no idea what her life was like before that, if she was a stray the whole time or if she wandered away from someone. The kitties you adopted were SO LUCKY to have you rescue them; they were sick, but you gave them all the love and attention and medical care that you could. They had a much better life because of what you did for them, than if they would have remained on the streets or in the shelter. Lots of people who have such sick kitties end up dropping them off at the shelter again……..and again……..and again. Lots of people have told me I should have taken Holly back to the shelter when she was so sick right after I adopted her………..but as soon as “she chose me”, there was no turning back; I loved her from the moment I saw her!!!!!!! I had called ahead to PetSmart (they get their cats from the Toronto Animal Shelters) to see if they had any kittens for adoption; the cages were empty at the time, but I was told that the Animal Control Officer was bringing a new lot of cats to the store that afternoon, and there would be kittens in it. So I got on the bus, all prepared to bring home a kitten, thinking that at least she wouldn’t have a long history of “who knows what” illness or injuries, so hopefully she wouldn’t get sick like Ashley did. However, when the AC Officer brought the cats into the store in their own little carriers, Holly started staring at me right away. She kept trying to get out of her carrier, and wanted to come to me. Now, that could be just because she hated the carrier, and wanted to get the heck out of there, and I was the only one around who could help her………….but honestly, I feel like SHE chose ME!!!!!!!!!!!! When the woman finally had the cats settled in their cages, I went back and talked to Holly (she had a different name, but I called her Holly because it was right after Christmas). When I picked her up, she purred like a little motor, and clung to my neck and shoulder!!!!!!!!!! Adopted!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did get angry with the Toronto Animal Services when Holly started having health problems right after I brought her home (I spent around $500 the first two weeks!!!!!!); because I had so many expense right after adoption, the city DID refund me all my vet bills except for the blood work—they said they wouldn’t have done the blood, but would have done everything else, so they agreed it wasn’t fair to me to spend that much right after bringing her home. PAYS TO COMPLAIN!!!!!!!!!! It makes me wonder, though, how much they really knew about Holly’s problems, and if they were just passing off a sick cat to get her out of the shelter. Don’t get me wrong—I LOVE HOLLY TO DEATH…………but if I had known about all the health problems she’s got, I might have made a different choice……………IF Holly hadn’t chosen me first!!!!!!!

            Goodness, I wouldn’t be able to handle a feeding tube OR force feeding a cat, either!!!!!!!!!!! It’s a good thing that you let the vets handle Charlie with that; the vets do it all the time, and they don’t have the connection you did with Charlie so they likely weren’t as hurt or emotional by having to do it. I had to force feed Ashley shortly after I adopted her; about a week after she came home, she ended up with respiratory infection, and stopped eating (her nose was all plugged up with green snot and her eyes were watery, and she lost her appetite). I had to take her back to the Humane Society and leave her for over a week while they got rid of the infection; I cried all the way home, feeling like I abandoned my baby!!!!!!!!!!! Even when I have to drop Holly off at the vet’s office for an enema……….I’m always in tears, knowing Holly is and is going to suffer, and I can’t help her. I often wonder if she gets mad at me for leaving her there………..but I know she needs the help and I can’t give it to her.

            You might want to ask Dr. G about rabbit food…….I’m pretty sure it was on Lisa Pierson’s website that I saw Hound and Gatos Rabbit was very high in Phosphorus……..and I’m not sure, but I think that can also cause crystal problems.

            From what I was told, fatty liver isn’t necessarily related to obese cats……….it’s when they lose weight too fast. Something about the liver being forced to convert excess body fat into usable energy, and if it lasts too long, then the fat builds up too much and the liver starts to shut down. That’s one of the reasons I finally bought a baby scale for Holly, to make sure she isn’t losing too much weight too fast…………and also to make sure she isn’t gaining, either.

            There are SOOOOOOOOOOOO MANY problems we have to face with our babies. Honestly, I don’t know how parents do it with human kids!!!!!!!!!!!! I’d be a nervous wreck if I had a kid with half these problems!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thankfully, that can’t ever happen; I’ll always have four-footed babies with tails!!!!!!!!!

            I REALLY hope Moose and Whiskers make it through the night okay. And PLEASE get some rest for yourself, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You must be exhausted (on top of frustrated!!!!!!!!!!). Take care of yourself, and your babies, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 15, 2014 at 11:25 am #

            hi Ruth
            wow thank you for all the information…I will check the links out.

            I just wanted to say this about whiskers. I as dr g how come whiskers got sick in the beginning on raw etc…She said that some cats cant handle raw even with suppls and whiskers is one of those cats. I told her about the woman at the pet store saying all I had to do was acidify his urine with cranberry…She said he could eat whatever. Well I told Dr G that. I also told the woman at the pet store, she didn’t have a license to practice vet medicine. And just because she reads an article doesn’t make her an authority. Needless to say I will be going to the other pet store in the future. Not all cats respond… That is why he is on royal canin now. I tried on two different times to let whiskers eat raw and nv wet rabbit and some dry too. He was on acidifiers too. So she should not be doling out advise. It just makes me mad because she owns a pet store she thinks she is a vet.

            You know that was very interesting about how holly came to you. And I believe that cats do choose us. I have been saying that forever…And you went through hell too. Charlie was over weight when the fatty liver started. I made a big mistake. I listened to that vet who told me to change his food. That was before I met dr g. Yep rx diet. And he hated it… He just stopped eating. Of course the vet denied it… I just don’t think he was ever the same again. I loved him and it really upset me to loose him. We got Charlie from the owners. They had three kittens and they were out front in Walmart. We use to call him Walmart kitty… He was so cute.
            Lily I got from a rescue at petco. She was sick and it cost us over 500 with three trips to the er over that weekend. Life on the streets is really unkind…just like with mew. You know when I had the broom and would sweep the floor, she would run. I think she must have been smacked around or chased away. We watched some guy stop his car open the door and put her out. I found her..She was a kitten. She is the one my friend took when I go so sick and fell in love with her. She at least has a wonderful home. Whiskers came from Georiga…I met the gal who found him and tamed him. Mario came from florida ….he was born in a litter and the mother was trapped by the city in a program to save kitties. The dumb vet sprayed the mother not realizing she was nursing. Well the woman at the rescue put a lease on her and she lead her to the kittens. Mario had to have been the runt of the litter. He had a couple teeth that never developed. And he was so tiny. They didn’t feed them very good food either. Dolly was an owner surrounder…so don’t know much about her. Ozzie was found in a shelter and then the woman at the rescue beat him…He was nine months old. Moose I found at petco..don’t know much about him, but from the way he acts, it appears he could have been abused and abandon. Ceasar and calliope I got a shelter in Utah. The owners were forced to give up two kitties…someone in their aprt complex ratted them out as having too many cats. So they chose to give up the kittens thinking they would have the best chance of getting adopted. They were sick…No kill shelters LOL…they didn’t have money to take them to a vet. Calliope was days from dying…Ceasar was just starting to come down with the virus.

            So now, moose is hungry. I got up again at 5.30 to feed him..didn’t make it in time and he puked. since I got up so earlier, I have to modify the schedule. I wrote steve and he answered me saying this was all very interesting to him…wasn’t really aware of this. Dr G thinks he will do better with smaller amounts of food evenly spaced out. I had planned to feed him every four hours, but today its going to be 4.5 hours so that I can make sure the last feeding will hold him until morning not 5.30am…

            I think you have done so much for holly. And you know its just amazing how we bond to them. they need us and we need them…And I just cant understand how people can be so mean. But I know that as much I would like to, I cant take in any more…Our vet bills are a killer…and the food costs run about 200 to 250 a month. We all do what we can… I just wish there were more people like us willing to adopt and help…

            moose is on hardwood floors. I use windex clear and it does a good job… I just checked on him. He is hungry again. He has had 4.0 oz of food…next feeding is with suppls…He will be getting five feedings of 2.0 oz of food. that is 10 oz of food….calorie intate around 400 …..

          • Ashley October 15, 2014 at 1:33 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Yikes, I think I had one of YOUR days!!!!!!!!! All night I kept thinking about Holly and all she’s gone through the last few months, and how unless I give her fluids every day she’s lethargic; so this morning I decided I would take her for the blood test the specialist recommended. I didn’t go to the ER though, because they wanted an extra $75 for an exam fee on top of the blood—I figured Holly’s been examined enough, and they haven’t found anything wrong with her yet, so I’m better off keeping the money and just going to Holly’s regular vet. Holly was NOT impressed!!!!!!!!! As soon as she saw me put her carrier on top of my shopping cart, she ran and hid under the table. My poor baby!!!!!!!

            Anyway, it takes just as long to wait and ride on two buses as it is does to walk to the clinic, and since it wasn’t raining, we walked. When I made Holly’s bed for the carrier, I added a whole lot of extra stuffing, to make sure it cushioned her from all the bumps in the sidewalk). When we got to the vet, the technician was reading Holly’s file, and hadn’t gotten any reports from the ER………..so she wanted to do a urine culture. I told her that Holly didn’t need one; her last one was negative, and her bum no longer stinks, and she no longer leaks pee. But that’s what the vet’s last report recommended………..so she still wanted to do the culture. I told her that Holly just had a culture done a couple of weeks ago; it was negative—but maybe it was a false negative because she had been on three days of Amoxicillin; Holly DID have problems with urine leaking and a stinky bum LAST week, but it is all cleared up now. The technician said she’d have to check with the doctor, to see what she thinks. AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Finally the technician came back to me, and said as long as there’s no urine leaking or a bad smell, and she’s peeing okay, we can leave the culture for now, and just do the blood work, and you can save some money. I told her, at this point it isn’t even about saving money; Holly is TERRIFIED of those needles in her bladder, and I don’t want to put her through that procedure again, especially when I know she doesn’t have anything wrong with her urinary tract right now. She said okay, and then took Holly back to the procedure room to get the blood drawn. I was waiting for about ten minutes and they still hadn’t come back to the waiting room, when all of a sudden I heard Holly cry out………and I wanted to run back there and take her away—but I couldn’t move. I freeze whenever I’m scared—or scared for my baby!!!!!!!!!! (It made me wonder if they were doing the urinalysis without my permission…………I know I’m paranoid, but something didn’t seem right, especially the length of time it was taking them. Holly is a good cat, and never fights them, even when they are trying to give her needles.) Right after that, the receptionist got a call to go back to the treatment room……….and again I wondered what the heck they were doing to her. How hard is it to take blood………..I’ve seen it done, it only takes a couple of minutes!!!!!! About ten minutes later, they finally brought Holly back to me……….and seconds later, Holly pooped in her cage (thankfully I had a pee pad over her bed, ’cause this often happens and I wanted to be prepared)!!!!!!!!! To make matters worse, she continued sitting in it………….so the technician took Holly back to the treatment room again, cleaned her up, put a towel underneath her over the bed (they didn’t have pee pads, and I never thought to give them my spare pad)…………and brought Holly back to me again. When Holly got to me, she looked funny………..she was half sitting/half standing, and had a blank look on her face; it took about a minute for her to snap out of it, and then she turned around in her cage………and I knew what had happened; she PEED………….soaked the towel, soaked the pillowcases I had over her bed, and even soaked right through the baby’s change pad I had between the bed and pillow case!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So this time I took Holly out of her cage, gave the technician back her (now wet, stinky) towel, and tried cleaning Holly off with baby wipes I purposely keep in her knapsack for these occasions. She was SOAKED!!!!! I cleaned her up as best I could, and then we walked home again (almost an hour’s walk—it was really warm and humid today). As soon as we got inside, I took Holly right to the bathroom and gave her a full bath (not just a bum bath). Now she’s drying herself off (she refused to let me use the towels more than a couple of minutes). I was going to go up to the ER this afternoon to get the fluids that they set aside for me………….but I’m too pooped to get out of my chair any more today!!!!!!!!!!!! At least the technician was able to see that Holly’s poop was NORMAL this time…………..which was a good sign. She weighed Holly before the blood work, and said she’s the same weight as last time—8kg (AND wasn’t too happy about it!!!). I told her I’ve been weighing her at home, and my scale said 7.77kg…………..and their scale always weighs LESS than mine. So I have no idea what’s going on. I didn’t think until just now, though, if I had been feeding Holly the prescription diet, she would have GAINED a whole lot more weight, so they should be thankful I went against their wishes!!!!!!!!!!!! They never asked me what I was feeding her this time (a first), and I never mentioned how I got Holly’s urinary problems to go away (they didn’t ask).

            You know, I’ve had pet store owners tell me things that “should” fix Holly’s problems, too—and I keep going back and telling them it didn’t work. Both stores that I used to go to, the staff look like they’re cringing every time I go in!!!!! I haven’t been back in a while, though, ’cause I started feeding Holly raw food. Just as well, though………nothing they had did any good for Holly.

            You mentioned that the dumb vet spayed the mother cat not realizing she was nursing……….how the HECK could he not tell?!?!?!?!? Does he not know what a mother cat looks like?!?!?!??!?! Whoever spayed Holly screwed up, too…………she was still lactating at the time, and some of her milk dripped into the incision site while they were operating!!!!!!!!!!!! I still wonder to this day if that had anything to do with all of Holly’s problems. Of course everyone is going to deny it, but geez, aren’t operating rooms (including the patients) supposed to be sterile?????????? Why were her teats not covered up if they were operating?????? Only a man!!!!!!!!!

            It amazes me, with all the crap our babies have been through in their short lives, they still love us, and are still affectionate. My childhood wasn’t so great, and because of that I’ve pretty much cut everyone out of my life; if I were those kitties, I wouldn’t blame them for not wanting people around, especially anyone who was mean to them!!!!!!!!!!!

            Poor Moose…….puking again!!!!! Has he ever been checked for stomach ulcers? Or acid reflux disease (when the food and acids keep pushing back up your esophagus instead of staying down where they belong)? If you left food out for Moose overnight, would he eat it all in one sitting, or would he only eat when he’s hungry? If he only ate when he needed to, that would save you getting up so early.

            Holy smokes—-about your food AND vet bills!!!!!!!!! Your kitty food bill is more than I spend on both Holly AND me!!!!!!!!!! I honestly don’t know how you cope!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m SO GLAD your kitties have such a loving, caring family to raise them!!!!!!!!!!!

            I can’t believe Moose eats 400 calories a day!!!!!!!!!!!! That’s 2+ days for Holly!!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully today’s meals will stay down, AND come out “normal” rather than diarrhea!!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope those links were helpful, Joanne………..the Internet has so much information on it; I don’t know how I survived before I had my laptop!!!!!!!!!!!

            Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 15, 2014 at 2:29 pm #

            hi Ruth
            wow I got involved reading about holly today. You know doc will let you go back in her area if you want to. She has nothing to hide. I don’t like it when they take the cats back either. On the raw food, find out how many calories are in once piece of it. Then figure what hollys weight should be and feed her that much. the guide was 20 calories per pound. that can vary depending how active she is. She is getting moisture in the raw food. You don’t want to keep her on suq q fluids too long…

            Those vets just figure out ways of spending others money. Holly is pooping and peeing and eating. She is even playing these days too. that is all you want.

            Well here is the run down for moose. See when he gets extremely hungry and has nothing in his tummy that is when he pukes…So the key to all the feedings is this, timing that last feeding to carry him through the night. I will tell you this, he is so hungry by the time his feeding rolls around. By feeding him small amounts evenly spaced out, his body we hope is absorbing the food. We are not adding more food then he can digest at a time…When that happens he just craps it out.. So if he is hungry, the food is leaving his tummy and working its way down the intestines. With cats, I learned they have short digestive tracts and food doesn’t linger like with humans… They don’t get sick eating raw etc. they evolved from hunting and eating. They bury their food too. So I guess by not having so much food in his intestines, we are not putting the pressure on them and am hoping they can heal with steves suppls too.

            The proof will be tonight. Usually moose takes a dump in the early evening. That would be a combination of all the food for the day. Then he will have one more feeding around 11.30. If I can get him on the schedule, I had originally planned, he would go every four hours instead of 4.5 hours. So, I have modified it today to allow eating so dam early.

            Dr G said to give this schedule and amounts of food a few days to let his system get used to it. I have no life for now. I can go out for short periods of time. So I try and set up things within a four hour period of time.

            Whiskers is doing fine. eating and drinking and using the box. Oh I opened a can of dog food scooped out 5.50z into cat can of food and added the taurine. ceasar cant tell the difference.

            what a day!

          • Ashley October 15, 2014 at 2:58 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I asked several times when I took Holly to her old vet if I could go with her during the blood work and all the procedures; they said no for all except one time (that’s how I know that she doesn’t fight the vets….she just sat there while they poked her neck and took the blood; didn’t even cry!!!). After not being allowed back to the treatment room all those years (same with when I took Ashley), I just never thought to ask Holly’s current vet if I could go back with her. I will next time, for sure!!! I told them that Holly is doing much better these days; and that’s how I knew she didn’t need the extra urinalysis; not to mention, yeah, it’s extra money, and they’ve had enough of my money for a while!!!!!

            That makes sense, about how when Moose is hungry, it means the food is going into the intestines. I REALLY hope the new schedule works out better—-I’m sorry it makes more work for you, though!!!! No wonder you’re exhausted!!!!!!!!! What I still don’t really understand is…..if he’s hungry and has no food in his stomach, what is he puking up?

            You made me laugh with your idea about the rabbit food………putting the dog food into a cat can!!!!!!!!! VERY smart………and I’m glad Ceasar can’t tell the difference!!!!!!!!!

            Just got your email………….DO YOUR HAPPY DANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My fingers are crossed for the BOTH of you, that this continues!!!!!!!!!!!! I totally understand your excitement!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Moose a hug for me.

            Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 15, 2014 at 4:00 pm #

            hi Ruth

            thank you we can both do a happy dance. Dr g said to now watch for a trend for the next week. Moose still has food in his tummy throughout the day…by the time he goes to bed and gets up, his tummy is empty. its just brown liquid that comes up. It takes a while for the food to empty in the tummy and go through the intestines. so that is why I am waiting until later to give the last feeding with suppls too.

            I hope you reach a point that holly doesn’t have to go to vet much. she is pooping and those dam vets didn’t do much either.

            whiskers is running around playing with Mario. lets just hope that all of our babies are on the mend now.

          • Ashley October 15, 2014 at 4:20 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            AMEN!!!!!!!! To all of our babies are on the mend now, AND the vets didn’t do anything for Holly’s constipation issues!!!

            Now that Holly is starting to feel better, she is constantly trying to play my piano!!! She sits on the floor at one end of it and looks at me………..I keep say “No Holly”, and she just sits there and looks at me; when I turn my head away, she jumps up on the piano!!! Should I give her lessons?!?!?!? Thankfully, I have a tablecloth covering it, and it isn’t plugged in so she can’t actually make any sounds; but the keyboard doesn’t have a solid cover over it, and I keep worrying that Holly is too heavy to be on the keys. My neighbour used to squirt a water bottle at her cat when he did something she didn’t like (she didn’t like ANYTHING, so he got squirted A LOT!!!!), but I can’t do that to Holly. I’m not sure how to keep her away from the piano, though; she has a mind of her own, and when she wants to do something, she does it whether I say NO or not. She’s a female!!!!!!!!

            Okay, now Moose’s symptoms make sense…….I just couldn’t understand how he could puke on an empty stomach. Your poor baby!!!!!! I hope the smaller, more frequent meals help. Is it possible that, with the smaller meals, the supplements are too strong/too much for that amount of food, and that’s why he pukes??? A couple of times I’ve put a bit too much Dr. Maggie’s oil (for skin and coat problems) in Holly’s food, and that made her puke. Maybe ask Steve if that’s a possibility??? I REALLY hope Moose has a better night AND morning tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            AND HOW!!!!!!!!!! I will be SOOOOOOOOOOOO GLAD when we can cut back on vet visits………..and only have to go once a year for a checkup!!!!!!!!!!! I know some people don’t even do that much, but even with a limited income, I’d rather know if there are any health problems, than wait until it’s too late to fix them. But having to go to the vet every couple of weeks is NOT fun………..as I’m sure you well know!!!!!!!!!! I feel so bad for Holly, too—it’s scaring the crap out of her………LITERALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully we can BOTH cut back on vet visits……..and save our money for something that makes our babies happy, rather than scared.

            I hope you have a great night, Joanne. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 15, 2014 at 5:04 pm #

            hi Ruth

            was just thinking…could you get some old boxes and cut the up to the exact size of the keyboard. Put some self adhesion tape on the backs of the cardboard so holly wouldn’t want to jump up on it… Or maybe get an old sheet to cover. Cats are really smart.

            While I am typig this to you, whiskers and Mario are at my side playing. Whiskers grabbed marios tail and that made Mario mad. Now the two of them are grooming each other. They play fight with each other when we go to bed and on of them will jump off the bed.

            How can anyone get mad when they are so cute.

            lets hope we both have a good sleep

          • Ashley October 15, 2014 at 5:37 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww………….those pictures would be good to send to America’s Funniest (or cutest!!!!) Home Videos!!!!! I’m REALLY glad your babies get along so well. Nope, don’t know how people can be so cruel to animals…………makes me TICKED OFF!!!!! What your poor babies went through before you found them…GRRRRRRRRRRR. You know what, I think anyone found hurting animals should have the same things done to them—-and I’ll sell the tickets to watch!!!!!!!!!!! Our animal cruelty laws are a JOKE (at least in Canada!!!!!!!!!!).

            Yes, I’ll say cats are smart!!!!!!!! Not long after I adopted Ashley, it was really hot in my apartment so I propped the door open with my shoe for a little while to get some cooler air blowing through from the hallway. When it was closer to bed time, I closed the door, and went back to watching TV. A few minutes later, I heard someone rattling the doorknob, and it scared the living daylights out of me!!!!! I was new to the building, but thought it was safe, and I didn’t have any friends or neighbours who would have a reason for even coming to my apartment. I went and looked out the peephole, and nobody was there, so I went back to watching TV again. And the doorknob started rattling again. Okay, now I was freaked out; I checked the peephole again, and still nobody was there, so I slowly unlocked the door and pulled the door open…………..and there was Ashley, wanting to come in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn’t know how she got out (I didn’t think the door was open wide enough for her to squeeze through), and I had no idea she knew how to open it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yup, cats are VERY SMART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            That’s an AWESOME idea for the piano keyboard…………..THANKS!!!!!!!!!! I’ll give it a try………and hope to outsmart my baby!!!!!! I knew there was a reason I mentioned it to you!!!!!!!!!!!

            Holly just peed again—VERY small compared to normal, but I think she peed out quite a bit in her carrier today, so I’ll try not to worry too much. I’ll try to get her calories counted better; I have the chicken counted fairly accurately (at least according to the packaging); it’s all the supplements and the premix for the raw diet I have problems with. The premix doesn’t have a calorie count, but I’m sure there are calories in it somewhere; and I even realized tonight that the D-Mannose has calories in it (10 calories per tsp)–not much, but I wasn’t counting them before. With Holly losing weight on MY scale, I thought we were doing so well……..it weighs a pound of butter precisely, so maybe the problem is the scale at the vet’s office. She even LOOKS like she’s lost weight, especially across her back and ribs. Maybe the extra weight the vet is getting is muscle and not fat??? Who knows; hopefully we won’t need to go back for a while, and I can keep working on the weight loss.

            Anyway, I hope you and your babies ALL have a good sleep tonight………..and that you can do your HAPPY DANCE again tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 15, 2014 at 7:22 pm #

            hi ruth that was a cute story with Ashley. how we miss our ones that have passed over. I sure miss them and its coming up on seven years for rassy cat. I was thinking earlier how lily and Charlie and mew passed and how I wished they could have stayed longer. Eleven is not old for a cat and neither is 14. My pussywillow was so smart. I remember when I didn’t feel good and would go to bed, she would come up on the bed and guard me..she wouldn’t even let jim get in bed. when she would get sick, I would take care of her…She could have lived longer if it hadn’t ben for the fiv..I remember how she would grow whenever the neighbors dog would bark. And when I would cry, she would lick my tears off my cheeks. she was suck a character. Both Jim and me cried when we said goodbye. The vet said she was suffering and didn’t have much time left. I remember I couldn’t eat for days just like with rassy cat. I couldn’t talk without crying. Those were my first two furkids.

            You know even tho a times passes on, I still feel the pain and loss. There a times we all probably wonder if there was more we could have done. But hindsight is always 20/20.. What I know now, I could have probably saved lily. But, back then, I didn’t know so there is no sense beating up on myself. I do remember reading in Dr. Pitcarins book how he started out too. And then things changed for him. His entire outlook changed. Those allopath vets just continue to push those vaccines on off whether animals need them or not. Then they push expensive tests on us whether we can afford them or not. As I have learned a great deal of the crap, they spouse doesn’t change anything. And then their narrow minded bs about alternative healing. I have a doctor who is like that too. I fooled her one day. Its a long story, but in the end, when I got through with it she knew she had been had.

            Well tonight Moose just finished his fourth feeding. And you know its always about this time, when crisis starts. He has one more feeding at 11.30 with suppls.. He is still letting me know he is hungry. But dr g says to give this all a few days and to watch for tends. I did let steve know too…

            give holly a big hug for me. And try not to worry about how much she goes…As long as he pees that is a good sign. whiskers goes in and out…He pees big and little. I just let him be.

          • Ashley October 15, 2014 at 8:38 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I’m really hoping Moose makes it through the night with no accidents; you need some relief, a night without stress!!!!!!!!! Hopefully Dr. G’s method will work, but even if it doesn’t work tonight, maybe it will just take time for Moose to get adjusted to the new schedule. I had to do that with Holly; I used to free feed her kibble, then I took her bowl away and started giving three meals a day, then four meals because she couldn’t wait through the night without waking me up. Now she knows her schedule, and she doesn’t start looking for food until it’s almost that time (usually!!!!!). I know how hard it is to wait for a miracle………but it will come. You’re doing all the right things, you just have to have faith—in yourself and in Moose. And yes, I know how hard it is to have faith when things keep going wrong; but I know you will keep trying, because you love your baby so much.

            You know, I think it takes a lot of courage to bring an animal (or animalS) into your life. You know that you will likely live longer than them, and with all the trauma they’ve been through before you found them, there are going to be health issues. But you bring them into your home, give them as much love as your heart can give, and keep trying to make their lives happier and healthier than they would have been on the streets or in the shelters. You realize you will eventually have to say good-bye, but for the moment, while they are happy and playing, while they are having normal litter box usages with no accidents, while they are keeping their food down and it comes out normal at the other end……….these are the moments we live for, and try not to think of what might be ahead. If we look too far ahead, we miss out on what we have in front of us. My therapist always wanted me to make goals for what I wanted in 5 years or ten years down the road, but I never could do that; I can only live one day at a time, because tomorrow may never come. Why plan so far ahead, rather than focus on what is right in front of us……….our babies who need us, who make our lives worthwhile and whole. We may have adopted THEM, but they make OUR lives so much more enjoyable; if it wasn’t for first Ashley, and then Holly, I really don’t think I’d be here right now…………so I may have saved them, but they saved me, too!!!!!!

            I still do cry from time to time about Ashley dying; I try not to, because it hurts too much, but sometimes I just sit on my bed with her picture, and go through her memory box with all her toys and blankies, and the cards I got from friends who understood what it was like to lose my best friend. And every November 1, I have a hard time, remembering taking her to the vet’s office, and holding her while she died. That was one of the worst days in my life………..and then I walked home from the vets office (8 miles), because I couldn’t face anyone on the bus with an empty cat carrier. I got an extra week with Ashley that I didn’t think I would. I brought her in to the vet the week before because she was breathing too fast, which meant she was in pain; they gave her pain medication but it didn’t do much. In the end, she couldn’t poop, and everything she ate she puked up; after a week of watching that, I just couldn’t stand to see her suffer any more. Her little body kept heaving and heaving, like she was trying to turn her stomach inside out, and I would sit and pat her back and talk to her, telling her it’s okay………..but it wasn’t. I finally called the vet’s office and asked if Holly’s vet was in that day, and if he could put her to sleep for me. I cried the whole way over, and the half hour I had to wait for the vet…………..he was really gentle and caring with Ashley, he wrapped he in a blanket to take downstairs to get the IV set up, and then brought her back up and I sat with her for about five minutes, just talking to her, telling her how much I loved her, that she was my best baby, and she meant the world to me……and I was going to miss her so much when she was gone. But I also told her that even though I didn’t want her to leave, I knew she was in so much pain every day, and nobody should have to live like that; I wanted that over for her, so she could be at peace. When the doc came back in, he said a prayer, and then gave Ashley the injection………..and she was gone. Her eyes didn’t close, and that freaked me out, ’cause I thought she was still alive, but the vet said that’s normal, and they will eventually close on their own. After that, I signed the papers, paid the bill, and cried all the way home……………and for the next few months I was a total basket case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn’t (still don’t) have normal friendships; Ashley was and Holly is my closest friends, and right now, the only other friends I’ve got are at the end of my emails!!!!!!!!!!!! Face to face human friendships hurt too much, from my experience; animals keep loving you, even when you take them to the vet, make them take medicines, or even if you’re in a bad day. Animals are the BEST FRIENDS IN THE WHOLE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!

            You’re right about the tests………they keep wanting to do more tests, even though they know I can’t afford them. Even though I have insurance, the insurance company doesn’t cover all the costs, so I’ll do their tests when I think it’s right, AND if it’s covered, but Holly didn’t require an “exam fee” today, because she’s been seen so many times in the past month, and they never found anything wrong with her. Why would I give them another $70+ dollars only to say there’s nothing wrong??? I already know that!!!!!!!!

            Anyway, enough of my rambling…………..I REALLY hope Moose keeps his food in long enough to pass out normally at the other end!!!!!! And I hope you have a stress-free night tonight, and a Happy Dance morning!!!!!!!!!!! I’ll be leaving home early tomorrow for a doctor’s appointment, and won’t be back until late afternoon (have to pick up the sub-q fluids from the hospital on the way home). I’ll talk to you then. For now, take care of yourself, and all your furballs!!!!!!

            Ruth

          • joanne October 15, 2014 at 9:09 pm #

            Hi ruth

            I just want to thank you for sharing your story about Ashley.. I know what it feels like too. When I put rassy cat down, I couldn’t believe this is how it was supposed to end. He was getting more tired and wanted to be by himself. I stayed with him so much of the time. I blamed the vet for not letting me know in the beginning that he was showing signs of kidney failure. I did change vets…But it didn’t help. Jim was out of town when the happened. and I like you came home to an empty house except for the other kitties. I took the empty carrier in the garage and just cried. I had enough as long as it took for someone to graduate from high school. I just couldn’t conceive he was gone. oct 18, is coming up. Every year on the date they crossed over, I light a candle just to let them all know I am thinking about the. And when I light the candle, the tears fill up in my eyes. I have lots ofpictures and I remember when they were taken. They all look happy in their pictures.

            even now I still wonder, If I had known about vaccines and better foods and holistic care if any of them would be alive now..And also I have lost contact with the people who adopted tootsie. So as far as I know, I don’t know much about her. I wished sometimes, I could have kept her. I had her for 10 years, but when I got so sick, and almost died myself, I could barely take care of my three remaining cats. I knew I would get ozzie and dolly back and thought I would get tootsie back. But they feel in love with her. The reason I let them take her is because she hated the other kitties and missed lily and Charlie. I couldn’t spend time with her and felt so bad that she was by herself. I couldn’t do much because I was so sick. I had crappy neighbors who didn’t much care. Finally the house sold and jim came back to help get us moved. By then I had lost over 40 pounds in 6 weeks and had nine trips to the er. Funny thing here is when I got holistic help, I learned what was wrong…I had food sensitivities stress and was anorectic… I spent a year getting well. Those doctors couldn’t diagnose sh@@…everything they claimed was so off base. As a result it cost me one of my cats. I knew that I couldn’t let moose go even tho I had tootsie longer. I knew tootsie would be ok…I knew from that voice inside of me, that moose couldn’t survive without me. So I brought moose, whiskers and Mario with me and then got ozzie and dolly back a few months later. tootsie and lily were the best of friends and Charlie too.

            cats and dogs have feelings and they are more than just a cat or just a dog.

          • Ashley October 16, 2014 at 1:35 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Just got home and read your emails; I’ll respond in a sec., but I had to tell you this first: The vet left a message on my answering machine: Holly’s blood tests were all NORMAL; Holly’s vet said she’s in great condition, no kidney or liver problems, everything looks wonderful. WHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a relief!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I had to rub it in, though—I told her about the D-Mannose curing Holly’s UTI. Good or Bad, at least she knows there’s another product that works for kitties who don’t respond to antibiotics!!!!!

            PROBLEM…………I’m panicking BADLY!!!!!!!!!!!! I just got an email from Canada Post saying that my VS package has been delivered………….but it WASN’T!!!!!!!!!! The package was scanned at 15:32, and I got home about 3:45—no package. I’ve gone and checked my door several times, called the building manager, and even Canada Post………..nothing. Canada Post said the only thing they can suggest is that I call Steve to start an investigation; the 1-866 number doesn’t work from Canada, so I sent him an email instead. We live in a secure building (have to have a key to get in, and there are cameras at the entrance); I get packages left in front of my door about 2x/month………..nothing has EVER gone missing. I am FREAKING OUT!!!!!!!!!!! I DID get an envelope from VS today, with instructions on how to use the products plus my bill, but no supplements. I keep hoping I’ll get an email saying that the package was dropped off at the Post Office, but so far there’s been nothing else.

            I’ll send this now, and answer the rest of your email in a few minutes—I need chocolate!!!!

            Ruth

          • joanne October 16, 2014 at 3:16 pm #

            hi Ruth

            I think that they insure the packages. how can I help you. There is an another order number on their site…just let me know. Steve will email you back. When I get my package the bill is always inside and so are the instructions. Someone may have opened that package. I don’t understand how they would get separated.

            I am so glad to hear that holly is doing so well. and I am glad you told the vet as well too. pat yourself on the back.

            Let steve know that you got your bill and instructions separate too. You waited so long and this happens. not fair.

            moose is doing better too. two days on the regime…this am when I got up. pretty poops in the box. no puke either. Then he had another bm after breakfast it was nice too. Dr G has helped me a lot…so greatful.

          • Ashley October 16, 2014 at 3:35 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I did email Steve, and told him that I got the instructions/bill separate from the supplements. He said he did this so it gets through customs faster. I think right now, the only thing I can do is wait………and hope it shows up tomorrow. I’m going to put a note under the mailroom door for the delivery guy, asking him if he remembers delivering it. But he doesn’t come until late afternoons, so it’s going to be a long day tomorrow. I told Steve that the Post Office didn’t have the package (yet), and I was told by CP I had to contact the sender of the package to start an investigation. I’m REALLY hoping it shows up (SOMEWHERE) tomorrow. I’m REALLY hoping nobody in my building took off with it; it would actually make me feel unsafe living here if that happened. I’ve NEVER had anyone run off with my packages in the past………even a new pair of orthopedic shoes!!!! My apartment is the last unit at the end of the hallway, so nobody should even really be going past my door. I’m still a little freaked out, but hoping it will show up tomorrow. If not…………….if someone DID run off with the package, I’ll be contacting the building manager, that’s for sure!!!! I already did ask him if there was a package left for me at the office, but he said there wasn’t.

            The number I called for VS was the 1-866 number; I saw the other phone number on the site, but it’s long distance, and I don’t have a long distance phone package…….or the money to pay for the call. That’s why I finally emailed Steve. I’ll try to stay calm……..at least until tomorrow!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU for asking if there’s anything you can do………..just having someone to talk to has helped already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAPPY that Moose is doing so well………….no puking, AND pretty poop………good combination!!!!!!!!!!!!! That’s AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!! See, you’re doing so well, keeping him to a schedule!!!!!!!! Nurse Joanne to the rescue again!!!!!!!! And Thank You to Dr. G, too!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m glad you have Steve and Dr. G on your team.

            You know what, I wasn’t going to tell the vet about the D-Mannose; I purposely didn’t tell them yesterday, so they couldn’t say there was something wrong with the blood work because I was using it. But I finally did tell the vet just in case she got another kitty who is resistant to antibiotics. I told her that I knew they didn’t believe in natural medicine, but this is the reason that Holly’s UTI cleared up so quickly—in 24 hours. Even if they don’t use the info right away, maybe they will come across a sick kitty one day, and remember Holly. Either way………..I tried. It’s up to them to use the information!!!!!

            I’m going to go now and put the note under the mail room door; the guy knows who I am, so hopefully he’ll be able to tell me some good news tomorrow. I’ll talk to you later. Take care, ’cause I care…………and give Moose a big hug for me!!!!!!!

            Ruth

          • joanne October 16, 2014 at 5:56 pm #

            Hi Ruth..just let me know if you want me to call vs for you..I will
            Well I am just waiting until 7.00 so I can feed moose again. He gets hungry in between the feedings. I have one more to go after this one. I am amazed how many people now days are asking how he is doing esp all the people at the grocery store. He has lots supporting him and I hope he knows it… thank you most of all for just being there listening to me. This time, its going to work longer than ten days.

            Getting all of them to eat can be a challenge too. Sometimes ozzie wont eat wet..other times he chows down. Its just weird.

            Best of all I am so glad that holly is doing so well. Getting an allopath vet to admit to natural healing is a real chore just like allopath doctors who are never wrong. Well they are wrong a lot.

            I am not saying that all western med is bad, but when it comes to anything it just seems like they want to push pills and pills and then push pills for the side effects the first pills caused. And then they make fun of natural healing because they don’t understand that their own medicine isn’t an exact science. You know cancer rates are higher than ever. I saw a lot on the net…Seems they need to come up with other things besides putting poisons in ones body. For years I remember people who had ulcers worried to much and shouldn’t drink milk or eat spicy things. Well, some drs researched in Australia revealed they were caused by bacteria. Well that set these guys here back on the butts.

            well, I am off to feed moose. and I just hope that package comes tomorrow. I want you to be able to use those things. And why would anyone want supps for a cat. Ask steve is he insured the package.

          • Ashley October 16, 2014 at 6:06 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I hope the last email got to you……….the supplements arrived, safe and sound!!! You don’t need to call Steve for me—but thank you SO VERY MUCH for offering!!!!!!!!!!! I think the mail carrier and I just missed each other; maybe he went to deliver the box to my door, found I wasn’t there, and put it in my mail box instead…….as I was going up on the elevator??? Who knows. I went back down and put another note under the mail room door, telling him to ignore my first note, and that I got the package.

            I hope Moose does MUCH better this time around, too!!!!!!!!!!! With all these people pulling for him, he’s GOTTA start getting better!!!!!!!!!!!

            SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Last night I tried your idea with the double sided tape on my piano; I just took packing tape and rolled it into long loops, and put them across the piano on top of the table cloth. I haven’t paid attention to Holly enough today, so she looked across at me and then jumped up on the piano…………..and her paws got stuck on the tape………..and she jumped right off, without me saying a word!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU for the wonderful suggestion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Just realized with all the commotion tonight I forgot to have supper…………I need to go eat before I pass out!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 16, 2014 at 7:44 pm #

            Hi ruth

            don’t neglect yourself…make sure you eat…and I ma glad that vs suppls arrived Yippie and now you get to try them out.
            glad the tape worked…cats don’t like to have sticky things stuck to them. LOL….I wouldn’t either…

            Moose was sleeping when I last checked on him. I am sure he will start getting hungry again. I save two vits that he gets at his last feeding. He gets a total of four two am two pm. He eats them like they are some kind of treat. I got them dr G. I have never seen a cat chow down like he does. In another few weeks I will take him and get him weighed again. You would think if no diarr and eating almost 400 calories a day, he would start packing on pounds. His ears are clearing up from being so chapped and also his coat is looking much better. So he has to be getting my nutrition in his body.

            Staying up until 11.00 or after to feed him worked last night. He has to have enough food to make it through the night. He must have had one bm between night and morning in the box. I cleaned that out…And then after breakfast, one more….that had to be the last feeding..So everything must be working…I just think that too much food brought on the diarr too. I guess he has to mend and by not forcing his insides so much, things are mending.

            well we will see what happens tonight. And with the last feeding, thought it would be good to give all the suppls too.

          • Ashley October 16, 2014 at 7:02 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Thankfully, (I think!!!!) Holly never has a problem eating her food!!!! She did refuse food a few times, but then I figured out that the ingredients were hurting her stomach (took me a while!!!). Holly does NOT do well when veggies or fruit are added to the food; she gets gas and stomach pain (hurts when I touch her belly). It took me a long time to realize it was the veggies; now she inhales her food with no problem. I read (either on Lisa Pierson’s site or maybe Dr. Becker?) that for cats who have stomach problems and are starting on raw diets, the food needs to be ground up. I was letting Holly chew big chunks of chicken at the beginning, until I read that. It’s just as well……..when Holly tried to eat the chunks of meat, it got very messy!!!! Often she would take the food out of her bowl and drag it over to the carpet to eat!!!!!!!! With all the cranberry supplements plus pumpkin, plus the premix (it’s kind of yellow because I added egg yolk), the carpet looked pretty bad after each meal!!!!!!! Since I had frozen all the food in individual 1/4 cup mason jars already, I use my mini food processor (big enough to hold one large onion) to grind each jar of food after it thaws. Unfortunately, the ground food doesn’t require much chewing, and Holly inhales it even faster. Monkey girl!!!!!!!!!

            Yeah, I doubt the vet will even acknowledge that I used the D-Mannose, let alone tell me she’s going to use it. But at least I tried. Next, I think I’ll give them the printout of the vaccine page Steve sent me…………and tell them why they shouldn’t be pushing all those chemicals into pets!!!!! Might even give them the pamphlet containing all the VS supplements; for that, I’ll wait until I see results in Holly. Don’t want them saying “I told you so”!!!!!!!!!

            My doctor was ALWAYS giving me lectures on how natural medicine isn’t regulated by the FDA, that you don’t know what you’re ingesting, blah blah blah…………..as she handed out HER poisons for me to use instead. I do have to say, though, I did try the “natural” antidepressants in the past……..and ended up with hives and severe mood swings. I’ve still got mood issues, especially when my neighbours’ smoke fills my apartment, but at least I don’t get hives from the prescriptions. EXCEPT when the pharmacist forgets that I can’t have any meds from one specific company—whatever they use as fillers makes me itchy and I break out in hives. After five different meds from the same company giving me the same problem, the pharmacist finally figured out it was whatever they used in the fillers that I’m allergic to.

            I didn’t know ulcers were caused by bacteria!!!! And I was ALWAYS told my stomach problems were related to stress, and that I shouldn’t eat spicy foods (I can’t anyway—my mouth likes them, but my stomach rebels!!!!). Learn something new every day!!!

            Well, I hope Moose did okay tonight after his feeding. Keep looking for those pretty poops, and do your Happy Dance!!!!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care Joanne.

            Ruth

          • Ashley October 15, 2014 at 8:43 pm #

            Hi Again Joanne,

            I meant to include this link in my last email, but forgot: If you want a good laugh, it’s called “If people acted like animals at the doctor”……..it’s hillarious!!!!!!! Had me rolling on the floor laughing…………..mostly because I can relate so well with Holly!!!!!!

            https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=908646565819555

            Have a good laugh, and a good night. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 15, 2014 at 9:15 pm #

            Hi Ruth

            I watched the video…Wow…what do our animals think of us….Life at the vet!!!!!!!
            Well I checked on moose and he is still good. he has a little over an hour to go before his last feeding…

            pleasant dreams.

          • Ashley October 16, 2014 at 2:49 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I’m glad Moose is still doing good on his new schedule!!!! That’s AWESOME news!!!!! Hopefully this will continue. I’m glad you liked the video—it actually had me laughing so hard I was crying. I saw it the first time when I started giving Holly Cisapride………..and that girl with the long hair and ponytail played the part right on………that’s EXACTLY what Holly did, including spitting the pill out!!!!!!!!!! Humour helps make the bad times a little easier to bear!!!

            Steve’s office contacted me right away, and told me that the papers/instructions/bill are delivered separately so that the package can get through customs quicker; he suggested I talk to the mail carrier and the Post Office to see if it was delivered there; don’t have a way of contacting the mail carrier, and Canada Post said they “aren’t allowed to”…….it has to go through Steve in an investigation. Talk about passing the buck!!!!!!!!!!! Canada Post SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!! I called the Post Office, and was told that sometimes the delivery guys can make a mistake and scan the package as “delivered”, but when nobody opens the door for them, they take it to the Post Office. Normally my carrier leaves the packages in front of my door……….and I was home just a few minutes after it was supposed to have been delivered, so it didn’t leave much chance for anyone else scooping it up. I’m hoping, for some reason, it ends up at the Post Office; I will GLADLY go and pick THIS package up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I don’t know if this will help you or not………..it was a HUMONGOUS help to me when I lost Ashley, because I didn’t have anyone else who could relate to how I felt……it’s a pet loss website with different supports, and even an online Monday Night Candle Ceremony. Check out all the tabs……..I got a LOT of help from this site…………www.petloss.com

            I also like the song that plays on this website……..http://www.in-memory-of-pets.com/ and I even put a poem for Ashley online on this site under Tributes and Poems (in the Poems section). Without these websites, I wouldn’t have made it through losing Ashley.

            I used to wonder if there was something else I could have done for Ashley, but looking back, I know I did all I was able to. I didn’t have great pet insurance back then, not like Trupanion for Holly; PetCare only covered the bare minimum, and I used that up long before Ashley died. And I didn’t know about the megacolon surgery back then either; but I wouldn’t have been able to afford it even if I did know about it. She had a good life, despite all her illnesses at the end……….she lived to be 16; I spoiled her rotten…………’cause she was my only baby!!!!!!!!! She got me through a lot of family crap, too. If it weren’t for Ashley in my life, I wouldn’t be writing to you right now. I knew I had to stick around, because nobody could (or would) take care of Ashley the way I did!!!!!!!!!! I think we saved each other—I saved Ashley from the Humane Society, and she saved me from myself (and my family!!!!). And you did all YOU could for all your furballs; even when you were sick, you made sure that they were taken care of by someone who would love them as much as you did!!!!!!!!!!! I wish I could make the hurt go away, Joanne—you’ve had so much of it, losing all those kidlets. But you have to know that you DID do all you could for them; even though you didn’t know about the vaccines or holistic care back then……you’re doing better for your babies now than most vets. You couldn’t have done anything different back then because you didn’t KNOW there was something different. It’s not your fault, and I know your babies still loved you for all the love and attention (and spoiling) that you gave them!!!!!!!!!!! Cats DO have feelings, as I’m pretty sure most animals do. They wouldn’t keep loving us every day, even when we take them to the vet for yucky procedures and tests, if they didn’t have feelings. Anyone who says different has obviously never cared about an animal before!!!!!!!!!!!! And even though we lost our babies, they will always live on in our hearts; nobody can take that from us, not even the bad vets!!!!!!!!

            I’m REALLY glad you’ve still got the kitties in your life; I think, even though they scare the crap out of us sometimes by getting sick, they give us a reason to keep going, even a reason to get up in the morning………..sometimes by force (like when Holly steps on my bladder), but we know they love us, and we love them, too. We’re family……….I read once that adopted children (including the four-legged kind) are even more special than blood-related kids…………because they were CHOSEN. (or in my case, Holly chose me……….but you get where I’m coming from??). Our kids are special to us, ’cause we chose to raise them, to get them through their pain and sickness, and to love them, just as they love us back. I think we’d both be lost (I know I would, that’s for sure) without our babies to take care of!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I’m sorry you’re struggling through the anniversary of Rassy Cat’s passing; if there’s anything I can do or say, please let me know. The one thing that helped me the most when Ashley died is that I kept saying over and over again: at least she isn’t in any more pain; she isn’t suffering anymore. As much as I wanted her with me, I knew I was being selfish if I kept her here and she couldn’t keep food down or poop it out; I had to let her go, so she would finally be at peace. It took me a LONG, LONG time to get over that pain, and yes, every year on November 1 I still have a good cry……..but that’s because I loved her SOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH, just the way you loved Rassy Cat. It hurts the most because we loved them. If we didn’t love them, we wouldn’t care so much that they are gone. So despite your (and my) broken heart, part of it’s still working or else we wouldn’t be able to love the kitty (kitties) we have in our lives right now. At least that’s how I feel, anyway.

            I REALLY hope you can get some rest tonight, and that there are no problems with Moose or Whiskers……..or any other furballs!!!! Try looking at the pet loss websites………..caution: bring kleenexes!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are lots of poems and tributes and articles on those sites that WILL make you cry………but for me, crying is what helped me heal. The more I kept the pain inside, the worse it hurt. Let it out……..your furballs won’t mind!!!!!!!!!!! Please take care of yourself, ’cause I care. Sending you lots of hugs!!!!!!!!!!!

            Ruth

          • joanne October 16, 2014 at 3:32 pm #

            hi ruth

            thank you for such kind and sweet words. I know about that one website. I did cry and I believe I wrote a tribute to rassy cat howard and mew. the music played and I cried. I think just having someone to share the loss with helps a lot. We do everything we can. And sometimes, its just time to let go. other times, we luck out and things turn around. Oct 18 is coming up and I will light the candle and put his picture in front of it. I just miss them all too much.

            You knew exactly what to say and I do feel better reading your words. I hope you get your package. Ask steve about the insurance too. I didn’t know on the orders to Canada that the bill and instructions go first. I think I would go down to wheverver the post office is and personally find out. That would make me mad. I wonder if they really delievered it…

            Govts are just a mess these days. Nothing seems to run on time like back then. Well moose and whiskers are doing much better. I went out and had to race home in order to get back and get moose fed on time. I have four hours in between feedings. Its not bad if I don’t have to go anywhere.

            I told jim its time for us to get lottery tickets. We play and sometimes we win like four bucks. one day who knows.

            Anyway, I will probably reread your words. I realize that had I known back then, I would have done everything different. I don’t remember ever overfeeding lily. I just food out. I have learned from Dr g about a regime. I told steve and he wasn’t aware of times and feeding amounts either…Now he is…and if something happens like this, he will be able to suggest other things. I just want moose to start packing on weight again. I would love to see him weigh more when I take him back for a weigh in..he can be the biggest winner of weight.

            Let me know about the package. I just feel bad for you…you are so nice and don’t deserve this crap. if I can do anything like contacting steve for you, I will

          • Ashley October 16, 2014 at 4:10 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            You are SUCH A SWEETHEART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you SO VERY MUCH just for being at the other end of my computer!!!!!!!!!!!!! I REALLY appreciate your support, both with Holly AND with this package problem. I knew you would be the one who understood!!!!!!!!!!!!! The mail carrier we have right now is actually AWESOME—he goes above and beyond. He always leaves my packages in front of my door, instead of making me go all the way to the Post Office (a 30-40 minute walk), and I’ve called Canada Post many times to thank him for that; I wanted his boss to know he’s doing such a wonderful job. The last few carriers we had were lazy fools!!!!!!!!!! Most weeks they never showed up on Fridays, they never delivered on a scheduled time so we never knew if they had come or not, and LOTS of times they didn’t bother to buzz our apartments when we had packages arrive—they just left delivery cards saying that we weren’t home at the delivery time, and took the packages to the Post Office. I called many, many times about that problem after waiting at home all day for a delivery that never happened………I’m sure I got a few people fired over it!!!!!! One time I was actually on my way out of the building when the lazy bum was writing the delivery card for me; I asked him if he had a package for my apartment number………….caught him red handed. He said yes, but it was in his truck at the back of the building. So what was he doing writing a delivery card, if he hadn’t even attempted to bring the package into the apartment building?!?!?!?!?!? Got that guy fired, too—last I saw, he was delivering for UPS!!!!!!!!!! I don’t take s@@t from ANYONE these days; I got walked on and stomped on for the first 25 years of my life………..not anymore!!!!!!! I’m just hoping there was a big mix-up with the delivery scanning, and my VS supplements show up at the Post Office.

            The website that plays the song………I cried SO HARD when I heard that!!!!!!!!!! I still cry when I go to that site; I like the song, but it does bring tears to my eyes, remembering Ashley like that. I’m SO GLAD I was able to say the right words to make you feel better. Sometimes I have a hard time knowing what to say to people, especially when they are hurting; I just try to think of what would make me feel better, and hope it helps you, too.

            Yes, governments ARE a mess…………..and they get paid so much money and do what??? Make things WORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t know if you follow the Ontario government news or not, but we’ve had one scandal after another with our Liberal government, and no matter what, they keep screwing up!!!!!!!!!!!! They’ve wasted so much of taxpayers’ money, and yet when I write to ask for help with my smokey neighbours, they tell me all the “good” they’ve already done to get smoke out of public places and school yards and parks……..and basically it’s up to me to fix the problem: I’m supposed to change the bylaws at city hall, change my landlord’s view of smokey vs. healthy living, and even have a nice conversation with the smokers asking them to smoke somewhere else. Yeah right!!!!!!!!!!! If there were proper laws in place, non-smokers wouldn’t BE in the position I’m in right now, sick as a dog because I have toxic fumes in my home every day!!!!!!!!! I’ve written so many letters to all levels of government, I’m sure they know me by name now!!!!!!!!!!!! I have yet to get a helpful response from any of them………….for ANY of the emails and letters I’ve sent over the years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I keep writing, figuring maybe they’ll get tired of seeing my name one day!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Plus, venting at them when they screw up makes ME feel better!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I have it a little easier with Holly–I’ve got six hours to do my running around in before I have to be home to feed her. Usually I’m home in time; the days I know I’m going to be a little late, I give her a little extra for breakfast. Today was a LONG day…………I went to see a rheumatologist at one of the hospitals—the first bus was late, the second one was so crowded I couldn’t handle getting on so I waited for the next one; then the doctor was 1 1/2 hours behind schedule (my appointment was at 9:30!!!!!!!!!!!!!); I had to wait over an hour to get blood taken, and then another hour and fifteen minutes to get x-rays taken. After that I went to the vet ER to pick up Holly’s sub-q fluids (THERE I finally caught a break—it only cost $70 for a bag of fluids and a whole box of syringes and needles!!!!! I checked online, and the fluids themselves were over $100; the ER only charged me $8!!!!!!!!!!). Then I had to go to the library to pick up some books I had ordered, on to Food Basics ’cause I didn’t have any fruit in the house, and then I got home to find my VS package hadn’t been delivered. And when I went to get my chocolate, I realized I had eaten the final bar last night!!!!!!!!!!! I’m SOOOOOOOOOOOOO GLAD I was able to talk to you about it……..you’re SUCH A KIND, CARING PERSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No wonder your kidlets love you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH for listening to me freak out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            See, all your hard work is not only paying off for Moose, you’re also teaching Steve about how to give the supplements, too!!!!!!!!!!!!! You should write a book!!!!!!!!!!!! All the stories you could tell; you’ve sure got MY support!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Thank you for offering to help me with the package; I don’t think there’s anything you can do that I haven’t already done. I’m just glad I was able to talk to someone…………..someone who UNDERSTANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jim is lucky he found you…………….and so are your babies!!!!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 16, 2014 at 7:34 pm #

            Hi Ruth

            just remember on thing this world is lucky to have you in it. You deserve so much more. I can see how much you care about so many things. And I can understand how hurt you must have been in the past and let down. You have so much compassion for others. And I am glad to see you getting back up and finding that driving spirit. You know many of us get put down so many times, we start to believe what others say…We just have to let the trash go out with the garbage and take stock of who we are.

            I am lucky to have found you at the other end there too. You know its been about one month. Just look at how far we have come and how much we have learned. Our kidlets are getting better and so are we. I still admit tho, I am scared about my kitties…But when I see them running around, I remember that doc says when they are doing all those wonderful things, they aren’t sick. I think because my male kitties have been through so much hell, it still makes me a bit paranoid with the box too.

            Oh that woman who runs the pet store called me to let me know no hounds and gatos rabbit. Well I told her what dr g said about whiskers again. She questioned me and her again. I told her that whiskers is one of those kitties who cant be on regular food. She then said to me, well did you have him on acidifiers. I told her what dr g had him on. Then shes says well maybe it was too much. I said Dr g is a vet and would know. I do what she tells me to do. Can you believe it, why of why do I have trouble with ignorant people cross examining me who don’t have near the experience she does. Doc even said, you have tried and tried with him and the food he would like to eat makes him sick. The lady at the pet store now thinks she is an authority because she has read a few articles. You Know Ruth, if the raw food didn’t work and the wet food didn’t work, what is her problem. Before whiskers got sick he ate raw rabbit. Back then, he hadn’t experienced utis or crystals etc. Afterward, he had to have surgery…They took him through the entire work up hoping he wouldn’t have to be castrated. What the hell is she thinking. Then after a time, I tried him on wet rabbit and he had uti and problems again. So a few years later, I tried one more time…and you know the rest. And then to say, oh you have him on to much etc. Doc said if you had him on too much, he would have problems with calcium…I don’t know how to spell what she called it. So I changed the suppls to uro mas and uro cleanse by steve. I wouldn’t accept advise from people like her, but she continues to give it….She isn’t an expert and she should stop acting like she is.

            She is just pissy cause I am sure she wants me to spend more money with her. I wont. And refuse to allow her to push me around. the next time she starts her sh@@, I am going to ask her where she went to vet school and if she has a degree and a license.

            Well so much for my rant… We have both been pushed around and I will tell you this, one just reaches the point when one just lets go. And I am close to blowing with her…but better than that, I should just not go to her store anymore. there is another store closer to me and they are pretty nice there.

            Now, lets find your package. Now if steve insured it, he can replace the products too.

            just always remember, you are unique and special. Well Mario and whiskers are chasing each other around. They live upstairs where my office area is. Ceasar and calliope live in an area off the family area where moose is…and dolly and ozzie live downstairs where jim is.

          • Ashley October 16, 2014 at 8:26 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Thank you SO VERY MUCH for those wonderful words of encouragement, Joanne!!!!!!!!!! I don’t get much of that in my life (and don’t get ANY of it from my family—I disowned my parents a few years ago, and don’t have much contact with my brother and sister; but that’s okay………..more peaceful this way!!!), and to have someone I just met say that—-you’ve got such a big heart!!!!!!!!!!! Yup, I put the trash out with the garbage, like you said!!!!!!!!!

            I can’t believe it’s been a month already that we’ve been emailing each other!!! I have a problem with time—one day often feels like a year, and a week often feels like a day, and I can’t tell the difference some times. That’s why I have to write everything down—or I’d never know what I did from day to day, or how much time has really passed!!!

            I can’t believe that pet store lady!!!!!!!!!!! Jeepers, who does she think she is?!?!?!?!? I’d go with your gut—don’t go back there anymore, so she can’t boss you around!!!!!! What the heck would she know about acidifiers, anyway?????? When you said Whiskers would have problems with calcium—is that oxalate stones? I think that’s the opposite of having struvite stones, if I’m not mistaken. I was always worried I was giving Holly too much Cranimals powder, and she’d end up having that problem too. That pet store woman better be careful with her advice………..someone is likely to sue her if she gives the wrong advice and it goes badly for a pet!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I like your family set-up, with all the cats on different floors. I wondered how you managed that!!!!! Don’t the cats ever go into each other’s territory??? Or do they need your permission first??? I can’t see how they would stay on their own floors without a traffic cop. It’s fun to hear about your babies chasing each other……….that’s how you know they are happy and healthy!!!!! I like seeing Holly tear around the apartment, too. On good days, I just have to roll one of her little wooden beads down the hall, and she goes after it like a bolt of lightning!!!! Holly’s back feet point outwards a little, rather than straight forward, so when she runs, she actually hops like a bunny!!!!!!!! It’s funny to watch her, but she can sure move when she’s in the mood!!!!!

            I’m answering your second email here, too.

            It was actually kind of funny to see Holly’s reaction to the tape on the piano!!! I felt sorry for her for getting sticky feet……..but I’m hoping it keeps her on the floor.

            I sent Steve an email, asking him which supplement he thinks I should try first, and how much of each………..plus if I should be eliminating any of the stuff I’m already giving Holly. I REALLY hope he didn’t start that investigation for the missing package already………..I feel HORRIBLE for putting him through that. I still have no idea what happened; when I got home at 3:45, there was mail in my box, including Steve’s instructions. No package at that time. Then I got the email from Canada Post saying that the package had been delivered………and the story goes on!!!!!!!! I hope I never have to go through that again!!!!!!!!!!! I had a friend whose stepmom hand-made a quilt for her daughter and sent it by mail; the delivery guy left it out on the porch, since nobody was home……….and someone took off with it; they never did get it back……….and it was a HAND MADE quilt—-no machine, all hand stitched!!!!!!! Can you imagine?????? Stupid thieves!!!!!!!!!!!

            No, I wont’ neglect myself; sometimes when I’ve got lots going on, though, I forget to stop and eat. When my head is filled with craziness, my stomach doesn’t remind me that it’s hungry!!!! I did finally have some toast; not a great meal, but better than chocolate.

            Moose sounds like he’s getting better in leaps and bounds!!!!! That’s great about his ears and his coat. And yeah, I’d like to know where all those calories are going………..Holly could NEVER eat that much and not put on weight (maybe it’s a female thing!!!!). I’m glad the new feeding schedule is working better for his little tummy. I couldn’t even imagine Holly pooping twice in one day; even Ashley didn’t do that. I’m glad that the smaller meals are helping, and hopefully you’ll have a nice present in the litter box again.

            I gave Holly a pinch of the Pet Flora with the rest of her supplements and food tonight. The instructions said to only try one product at a time, and just a tiny bit—and if Holly doesn’t puke or have diarrhea, she’s good to go. Oh, yeah, and I forgot to tell you, Steve ALSO sent me a little sample of Luxolite, too!!!!!!!!!!! I didn’t even order that—they just sent it for free!!!!!!!!!!!! I told him, “Joanne was right, you guys ARE the BEST!!!!!!!!!”

            Well, I think I’m going to go to be early tonight—it’s been a very long day, and I was up four hours earlier than normal this morning (I didn’t know 6:30 CAME twice a day!!!!!!!!!!!). I hope all your furballs have a good night, and let YOU have a good night, too!!!!!!!!!! Take care, Joanne, and thanks SO VERY MUCH for all your support and kind words—you’re an AWESOME friend!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Ruth

          • joanne October 16, 2014 at 10:48 pm #

            hi ruth
            well you a great friend too. what I like is how we support each other. that makes things nice. I am always at the end of your computer …don’t forget that….Doc said he could develop that condition with too much calicium etc in the acidifier. Doc always says she doesn’t know as much as Dr G. So when she is unfamiliar with products she says lets get dr g’s opinion. Its nice that both of them work so well together. And doc has refered a few of her patients to dr g.

            Tonight I noticed whiskers has been in and out of his box. he had a bm but I am kind of worried. I checked and he did pee. He didn’t get to bury it cause I was too busy looking. So he got back in the box so he could bury it. But I will keep an eye on him. He is getting uro max which is an acidifier..the uro cleanse has dmannose in it. I don’t think he is blocked cause he wouldn’t be running around. I might ask doc. May have to add more of something.
            dmannose is really good for uti. and it helps with bladder inflammation too. humans take it.

            on your suppl, steve may tell you it wont matter which you start first. but what I did was start with feline comfort for a couple of days and then the next one…the reason is because you want to make sure that none of the products will make holly sick. I started by adding product into about .5 of food and mixed it up…I didn’t put all in a huge amount of food cause I wanted to make sure he ate it up. I am doing the same thing now with whiskers food too.

            When moose is back up and running, I am going to try the free samples of pet flora I was given. steve says his are much better than what I had been doing. Then I want to get the digestive enzyme. The luxolite has been a life saver too. I gave it to moose with food and he never puked. I started him at 1/4t and then moved him up to 1/2 and then did it twice a day and then 3x times a day. I have the dose of feline comfort at 1/2t 3 times a day. I think putting too much food in the tummy causes it to not absorb and then it goes through. so his tummy is relearning how to digest small amounts of food and keep it in the tummy. Then it moves into the intestine. I was told a long time ago, that constipation results when the digestive tract just slows down or the muscles don’t contract the way they should. So lets hope both of them get well. If whiskers continues to go in and out of the box, he will face doc.

            The lady at that pet store still has dog rabbit left…the other place doesn’t. So I don’t know what will happen. maybe I will just have to suck up just so I can get what is left.

          • Ashley October 17, 2014 at 7:51 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            About the pet food lady….why don’t you get Jim to go get the rabbit food; I bet HE would put her in her place!!!!!!

            I started Holly off with a pinch of Pet Flora last night (with no problems), so I added two pinches to her food this morning. Steve suggested I try the Pet Flora first. I was surprised she would eat her food, ’cause the water turned so dark, but she inhaled it, same as always!!!!!

            I will NEVER forget that I’ve got such an AWESOME FRIEND at the other end of my computer!!!!!!!!!!!!! You’ve made this latest nightmare a LOT more bearable!!!!!!!!!!! AND you introduced me to VS………..so Holly is going to get much better!!!!!!!!!!!

            Is Whiskers doing any better this morning? I like the way you phrased “If Whiskers keeps going in and out of the box he’ll have to face doc”!!!!!!!!!! He better start peeing properly!!!!!!!!!!! I always tell Holly when she doesn’t poop on time, “If you don’t start pooping, I’m going to have to take you to the vet, and you’ll have to get an enema”. Sometimes it works, most times it doesn’t.

            I hope Moose is doing better today, too……………no puke or diarrhea???? The poor boy deserves a break!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I honestly don’t know how you manage all those supplements, knowing when to give them, when to increase or decrease them and by how much, AND which supplement is causing which problem………….I would be TOTALLY confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know Holly has a lot of supplements too, but they don’t cause the reactions you’re talking about like in Moose or Whiskers, so it’s easier to adjust if I need to.

            I found this on Dr. Becker’s website:

            http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/09/struvite-stones.aspx
            ———-Some pets are genetically predisposed to producing a protein called cauxin, which is excreted into the urine, causing sterile crystals or sterile struvite crystalluria. This means the crystals can form without the presence of infection. These animals are very prone to chronic cystitis, as these sharp crystals cause microtrauma to the lining of the bladder that results in discomfort and irritation——

            Right now, I’ve got to go find some breakfast for myself (Holly’s finished eating and is giving herself a bath); I hope you and the kidlets have a wonderful day, Joanne!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 17, 2014 at 8:28 am #

            Hi ruth

            thanks for the link. I read it and sent it to dr. g. Ozzie had a mucus plug…that was in 2012 when we first moved. I think it was because of the move and me making him eat…He was so stressed out. Well, now days, I put wet food down and if he wants it fine and fine if not. Today he ate a huge amount for him of nv wet rabbit along with dolly. Tonight I will offer wet again. I leave about 3/4c of dry food (wellness core grain free) total for both cats. That is it. So at least neither cat is on dry only. He has done fine since…. He never produced crystals.. I think I might have his urine tested too. I can take both whiskers and ozzie together. They are horrible at the vet…doc calls them big and little devil.

            Whiskers is in my lap as I type this to you purring a way….

            I have gotten use to all the suppls and food etc. Moose did a little puking today…it was clear tho. No diarr again…Dr G told me that those crystals that begin with an o come from a low ph and it would result from giving to much acidifier..just like doc said to.

            So the next time, she brings her crap up to me, I will let her have it. I am just going to ask her if she has a license to practice vet medicine including giving out advise…that should put her in her place. Some people just think they are perfect. LOL…

            Just watch holly and see how she does. I will be putting moose on that pet flora when steve and dr g ok it along with his digestive enzyme too. The nice thing with steve, his products may be a bit more, but they work. I think Holly is really going to do well with nv products.

            You just hang in there…and I cant wait for you to let those allopath vets know you found things that really do work..and its not their rotten drugs.

            Before I got whiskers he ate fancy feast fish…and he got vaccines too. he ate dry. I took him off all of that after he came to live with me…He hasn’t had another vaccine since he came to me. But no matter what, I will take good care of my little guy.

          • Ashley October 17, 2014 at 5:13 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I hope you and your babies are doing okay today……..no more puking or diarrhea??? Did Moose leave a nice present in the litter box for you??

            I had my afternoon “cat nap”—I slept for 3 1/2 hours………the most uninterrupted sleep I’ve had in weeks!!!! Feel much more alive now.

            I started Holly on the Pet Flora last night—just a pinch; and again today I gave her two pinches with breakfast. No problems so far. At 4pm I gave her 1/8 tsp of Luxolite; so far so good!!!!!!!!!!! I’m going to give her another 2 pinches of Pet Flora with her last meal tonight. If all goes well, I’ll try adding the Arabinogalactan tomorrow. Holly seems to tolerate “natural” products with little problem……..it’s all the chemical stuff she doesn’t do well with (she’s her mother’s daughter—I’ve got the same problems!!!!!!!!).

            I never did hear back from Holly’s vet after telling her about the D-Mannose. Oh, well; I didn’t go into that decision thinking I’d get any praise or even any feedback, so nothing lost. As long as HOLLY is feeling better, that’s all I care about!!!!!!!!! If the vet chooses to take my suggestion, good for the next kitty!!!!!!!

            I hope you had a good day today, Joanne. You deserve a break, and so do your kidlets!!!!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 17, 2014 at 8:10 pm #

            hi ruth

            I was tired out today and took a nap…I slept too and got rid of the headache.

            so glad to hear that holly is tolerating the suppls. She probably will do just fine. I would be surprised if you hear back because the vet probably doesn’t know anything about holistic products. and so don’t be surprised if they try to scare you. that is exactly what the vet in texas did. Well when it through dr g up at all of them, they backed down.

            I don’t know what it is about holistic and allopath vets. Holistic vets trained. They went to school. they passed the same tests. When they learn new modalities, they have to pass tests etc. Yet allopath vets think they have all the answers and that drugs will solve all the problems. Rodent ulcer never gets cured with steroids. And looking at what moose has been through vs products are working along with dr g excellent knowledge and doc being there to treat…

            so not to worry.

          • Ashley October 18, 2014 at 7:26 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            Sounds like your kitties wore you out this week………..I’m glad you were able to get a nap in and it got rid of your headache!!!

            How did Moose and Whiskers do last night??? Did Moose keep his food down? Did it come out in pretty packages??? I REALLY hope so!!!!!!!!!!!! Is Whiskers still going in and out of the box………….or did he have to face Doc yesterday??? I hope he isn’t sick again……….you’ve got enough on your plate already!!!!!! Tell them both that Holly says she wants you two to get better!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            No, I’m not “waiting” to hear back from the vet…………but I’ll bet she’s waiting for ME to bring Holly in again, sick as a dog, because I gave her healthy medicine!!!! I started the last new supplement today (starts with an A and has a long name—Prebiotic Fiber); I’ll NEVER learn to spell or say that word!!!! Holly just finished her breakfast—she doesn’t even seem to care what’s mixed in with her food these days, as long as it’s edible!!! That’s my girl!!!

            No, I don’t get the vets either; if holistic vets’ patients are doing just fine on the “natural” supplements and foods, why can’t regular vets see that……………and ask “why are my patients continuously coming in with all these diseases, and aren’t being healed?” “What are the holistic vets doing better that I’m not doing, that could help my cats and dogs live healthier lives?” Nah……………they think they’re right, and nobody (not even me) is going to prove them different. Hey, we tried.

            Today I’ve got to get a whole lot of laundry and house work done………all the running around this week, I’ve neglected all my chores, so everything has piled up. I might not be on my laptop as much today……….just so you don’t think I’m ignoring you!!!!!! I hope you and all the kidlets have a wonderful day……….with no puking, diarrhea, or pee problems!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 18, 2014 at 1:42 pm #

            hi ruth

            well jim and I went and bought lottery tickets…100hundred million. One can dream…..We never really win, just enjoy the drive…Moose did good except he woke me at 600 howling. So now, we have to make up time to get us back to the regular times.. I decided to increase his servings by 1/10…from 2.0 to 2.1….He just gets so hungry. I will let dr g know on Monday. I am just waiting about 1/2hour to feed him now.

            whiskers did good too. He just jumped in my lap. Now he is giving me kisses.

            I have to do all my chores this week. and that includes laundry and cooking meals and freezing up veggies.

            I got a free sample of the pet flora with my first purchase. I am going to use it when I get moose stabilized. He will be getting digestive enzyme too. will have to talk to steve down the road and see what moose will need.

            I bet you can see so many changes in holly. but most of all she is happy and running around. Today is oct 18, this marks 7 years for rassy cat. I am planning to light the candle at sundown.. I always do for each kitty…Just in case they want to stop by, they will see they are welcome and I haven’t forgotten them.

            If that woman from the pet store flips me anymore stupid opinions of her, I will tell her what doc said and dr g…esp where she accused me of giving to much acidifiers. If that had been the case, whiskers ph would have been real low and the other type of crystals would have formed. See she doesn’t know. Doc said the royal canin ur helps more as an acidifier. So the other foods, don’t do that. Anyway, I am going to get ozzie and whiskers checked next month or so…and then I can do dolly and ceasar later on…

            don’t work to hard…

          • Ashley October 18, 2014 at 2:14 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I REALLY hope you and Jim win the lottery—and not just a few dollars, either!!!!!! You’ve been through so much, and with all your vet bills and kitty costs, you guys deserve a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My fingers are crossed for you!!!!! I never play the lottery—I never win anything, and I figure I’d just be throwing money away to the government to mess up our province some more!!!!!!!

            Nice alarm clock—Moose howling!!!!! Holly usually just jumps on my bladder or sits on my face; either one will get me up………or at least wake up enough to push her off of me. It’s so hard when you don’t know what the increase or decrease in food for Moose is going to do. I’d be pulling my hair out right about now!!! I’m glad that at least he didn’t puke or have diarrhea……..AND good for Whiskers, too!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!!

            That’s so sweet about lighting the candle, so the kitties know they’re still welcome!!!! Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. I hope they all stop by to visit, just to let you know they are okay.

            I think YOU know more than that pet store woman!!!!!!!!!! With all your learning from Doc and Dr. G, plus Steve—you’ve got her beat, hands down!!!!!!!! Not to mention, you’ve got the actual EXPERIENCE, having dealt with all your kitties’ illnesses; you know what works and what doesn’t…………she should be taking a learning course from YOU, and not just spouting off what she read in articles. Good grief!!!!!!!!!!!!

            No, I’m not working too hard. In fact, after breakfast I had to go back to bed again; I’ve been so tired lately, and don’t have the energy I used to have, even though I’m still taking prescription iron supplements. I’ve started doing the laundry–got three loads done so far; still have three to go. My dinky little washer only holds a little bit, so my loads are very small (it can only hold two twin sheets at one time). But at least I don’t have to use the washers in the laundry room—the chemicals from the detergents and fabric softeners other tenants use make me break out in hives, so I had to get my own little washer (hand operated). It’s a pain in the butt to wash clothes when I’m tired, but the alternative isn’t an option, so I just do what I can and then take breaks.

            Whiskers is a GOOD kitty……………..I’m glad he is giving you kisses, and making you feel better!!!!!!!!! He knows how much you are hurting, and wants to share the pain with you. We’ve got some REALLY GREAT kidlets!!!!!!!!!!! Whenever I’m crying, Holly always comes and sits with me, too. Anyone who says animals are stupid or don’t have feelings, have NO IDEA what they’re talking about!!!!!!

            I was surprised when I saw your email right after I sent mine—great minds think alike!!!!!!! Your Rassy Cat sounds so cute, drinking out of the bathtub, and howling when you didn’t turn it on. I’m glad you have that ritual you do every year with the candle………that’s so sweet!!!!!!! It reminds me of the one story from petloss.com, “The Christmas Story” at http://petloss.com/poems/maingrp/xmastory.htm. I read that every Christmas and think of Ashley.

            There were a lot of things I had to get rid of after Ashley died; I did keep one of her beds, the carrier, and her small toys, but her scratching posts and her other beds I couldn’t bear to see them anymore. It just hurt too much. But after Christmas that year, not even two months after she died, I just had to have another baby to love………..so I went and adopted Holly, and I was glad I still had some toys for her to play with. I had to get lots of new stuff, but at least I had a few things to start with.

            I hope with Whiskers and Moose, and all the other kidlets surrounding you, you remember that you are an AWESOME MOM…………..and all your hard work with them has been well worth the effort!!!!!!! Even Whiskers was thanking you just a few minutes ago, giving you lots of kisses!!!!!!!!

            Take care of yourself, Joanne, ’cause I care.

            Lots of Love
            from
            Ruth

          • joanne October 18, 2014 at 6:43 pm #

            Hi ruth

            thanks for sending the Christmas story…I so hope we all meet up again. You know we never stop loving even if they are not here in the physical sense. I looked at the candle burning and remembered seven years ago today. I wondered how I would ever get through the rest of my life after having rassy cat with me 18.5 years. I remember how hard it was loosing pussywillow. I thought nothing could be more painful, but I was wrong. And then a month later, Mario came to me so sick. He gave moose a bad cold as well. Then Charlie got sick and then howard and mew died… And jim had relocated and I thought how could life be so cruel. And then things were ok for awhile until lily died and then Charlie died and then I got sick and then having to get help taking care of my kidlets only to loose tootsie. But, she does have a wonderful home now.

            So I should rejoice that the furkids I have now are with me. And moose is doing good. And so is whiskers. And I know how lonely it had to have been for you loosing Ashley. If only we could go back with all we know, one wonders if it would have changed anything. I don’t know.

            but one day we will all meet again.
            thank you again for the link…
            love you
            joanne

            I am going to try this again with my email

          • joanne October 18, 2014 at 7:33 pm #

            Hi ruth

            hope the email posted. Just got the kids fed..now I have to stay up until 11.00 and then feed moose again. Also will feed whiskers a bit more…

            Hope you got your chores done. I didn’t…Again I just loved that poem. I could just tell how much those mommy and daddy missed their babies and it just makes for tears. I remember one year when we just had pussywillow. She liked to go downstairs and somehow found mice in the basement. She would bring them upstairs and when we opened the door, she would drop them alive to come in the house. then Jim and me would have to round them up. Most of the time, we got them alive and let them go…One morning, jim was running late..He opened the door and she had a big one in her mouth. She ran in with it…Dropped it …jim had to go. I caught the mouse with a glass jar. I hurried and put the lid on it and took mr moose outside. Jim went in the basement later and saw where the mouse were getting in. He fixed the area and pussywillow had to move upstairs full time. I remember when we got rassy cat. He was three months old and I thought pussywillow needed a friend. Oh how she babied him..And she fought his battles with the neighborhood cats through the glass window. One time after we had moved to texas, she and I heard a racket in the living room. We ran in there and pussywillow was asleep on the couch. Rassy cat had somehow managed to roll over a bird that had flown down the chimney. Well Jim recused the bird and we put him outside. He stayed there awhile…He was a little shaken up. Poor rassy cat, he was afraid of the bird.

            I remember a really funny story. I was taking a bath and Jim was shaving. We were getting ready to go out to dinner. Well Rassy cat, came running and jumped right in the tub. It was horrible…bubble bath went everywhere and jim had to help me get him out. Jim had shaving cream on his hands. Rassy cat loved water…He used to get in between the shower curtain and the tub when jim would shower. He would go up and down the tub and the curtain would go in and out. He was such a character.

            One could say that my furkids knew no fear.

            love
            me

          • Ashley October 18, 2014 at 1:38 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I hope you are doing okay today…………I know it’s a hard day, remembering Rassy Cat and all his brothers and sisters at the Bridge. Just know that I am thinking about you, and I understand the pain………..and if there’s anything I can do or say, please let me know. I’m here for you, Joanne. Take care of yourself, and all the kidlets!!!!!!!!!

            Lots of Love
            from
            Ruth

          • joanne October 18, 2014 at 1:47 pm #

            thank you ruth

            I just sent you an email and saw yours. wow, we were both thinking of each other. Thank you so much for the kind words…I remember the day seven years as if it was yesterday. I sure miss him…I remember how he loved to drink water out of the bathtub fixture. I remember if I didn’t turn it on, he would howl…So we bought him a water fountain. When he died, I packed it up. Couldn’t even look at it. And I remember you saying when Ashley died, how you came home with an empty kennel….me too. We knew it was going to happen, but I sure didn’t want to face it.

            As I am typing this to you…whiskers jumped back in my lap and now is licking me. He knows how sad I feel.

            xxxxx0000!!!!!!
            me

          • Ashley October 16, 2014 at 4:39 pm #

            Hi Again, Joanne,

            The supplements arrived!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don’t ask how or when?!!?!?!?? I went down to put a note under the mail room door for the delivery guy, asking him if he remembered delivering my package; on the way back to the elevator, I checked my mail box one last time…..just for the heck of it. I was TOTALLY SHOCKED to see the package sitting in my mail box!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got home around 3:45; the tracking info was scanned at 3:32 (15:32)……….so how it got in my box after I had already checked it (AND got Steve’s instructions), I’ve got no idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m just VERY THANKFUL that they were there, that nobody had run off with them, and that I’m not out $70!!!!!!!!!!!! I sent Steve an email to let him know, too; now I have to call the Post Office and apologize………..and hope I didn’t get my mail carrier into any hot water. I haven’t opened the box yet, so I’ll have to let you know how it goes a little later. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 15, 2014 at 2:46 pm #

            Hi Ruth

            I just had to share this with you. moose took a crap. I don’t even know for sure when he did it. it didn’t smell up the whole house. It was normal…it was not soft. It was wonderful. I just wrote dr g and let her know.

            She is the best…

          • joanne October 13, 2014 at 9:28 pm #

            Ruth I am reposting this cause it came back to me and I don’t know if you got it or not. We seem to miss posts now and then… If you got it, ok and if you didn’t, here it is again. I noticed when I went to forum, none of our posts have a reply to click on…I get your email and then I post back to you…

            Hi ruth

            Just wanted to touch base…I am going to feed moose his last feeding for the night. per dr g she went over the schedule too. texas is a big state… If you want to know if a cat is dehydrated, you are supposed to pick the skin up and if it doesn’t rebound very fast, it means dehydrated. but I could never tell anyway…I would take my kitties in.

            doc says to put about 1t of water in the food. That helps…Moose likes his food soupy but now is learning to eat it not so soupy.

            Your vet is really going to be in a pickle. what can she say. Holly is doing so good. when you take holly in, don’t say a word…Just let the vet talk and let her assume all the crap she has done has worked. Then when she is done talking drop the big one on her. Lisa P is very knowledgable and knows more than most vets about food. Doc has her articles posted and urges her patients to go to her website.

            There again such close minded tunnel vision which proves how little they really know and refuse to open their brains up to things that work.

            Moose has already had two cans of food. So now, he is going to get a little bit more to hold him through the night and hope he doesn’t puke from empty tummy syndrome. I will wait for dr g to respond…I also sent steve an email and let him know too.

          • Ashley October 13, 2014 at 10:04 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            Yes, I already got that email………….weird how it keeps coming back!!!! Thank you for resending it though. I hope you have a good night; I’m off to brush Holly’s and my teeth, and then we’re going to bed. Take care, cause I care, and have a good night.

            Ruth

          • Ashley October 14, 2014 at 7:43 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            Just a quick email before I go find some breakfast for myself (Holly’s eaten hers already). Yes, I did get this last email; weird why it keeps bouncing back. I don’t usually go to the forum anymore; I just click reply to the bottom of your email—it takes me to the bottom of the forum, but I don’t have to look for your last post, because it’s in my INBOX.

            I hope Moose and Whiskers (and all your other babies) had a good night last night, with no puking or diarrhea (or accidents on the floor!!!!), OR any other problems!!!!! This a brand new week, and hopefully it will mean a brand new beginning of health for all your furballs!!!!!!

            I was so excited this morning!!!!! I always weigh Holly when I get up, before I feed her breakfast. Yesterday she was 7.84kg (17.25lb); this morning she was 7.77kg (17.09lb)!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All that running around must have help shed some weight!!!!!!!!!! This is the lowest Holly has been since before February…………….and I’m hoping she just keeps shedding those pounds. Won’t the vet be surprised!!!!! It was weird when I took Holly to the specialist—I had told her one of the reasons I didn’t want Holly on the dry prescription diet was because it made her gain so much weight. She said SHE DIDN’T CARE…………as long as the cat can poop, she didn’t care what size it was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HUH?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! That’s how diabetes, heart/liver/kidney problems start………from being overweight; not to mention arthritis from dragging around a heavy body!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I know that, why didn’t she?!?!?!?!?!??!

            Anyway, Holly is happy, she’s peeing, she’s not in pain, her bum doesn’t reek, her coat is shiny and soft, she’s got no dandruff, and she’s losing weight. Just gotta get her pooping now, and we’ll be all set!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I hope you and your gang have a good day, Joanne. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 14, 2014 at 10:02 am #

            hi ruth am off to feed Mario and whiskers again what they didn’t eat before. I am delighted to hear about holly. just to let you know, I had it explained to me that one pound for a cat is equal to about five pounds for us…general

            the slower holly looses weight the better. Just think moose has only gained 1/2 pound…he use to weigh 18 pounds…last weigh in 9.15 pounds…

            I cant believe the vet wouldn’t care about weight. That is amazing. I put Mario and whiskers on a diet per the back up vet we used…they lost the weight, but it took a long time. calliope is over and I count calories for she and ceasar. Dolly is a bit over too and ozzie is just right. So again, I count calories. since those two are eating more wet food, I have cut dry back. And also the same for Ceasar and calliope too. I was told to figure 20 calories per pound… So if you want holly to weigh say 15 pounds…just times that by 20 and that will give the amount of calories she needs to eat.

            just think you have done all of this on your own….I cant believe how closed minded those vets are. I wonder just how they are going to react…. I bet they will tell you that you need to have those tests done or should I say, they need to make more money. I would be looking around for a new vet.

          • Ashley October 14, 2014 at 10:47 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            I was actually VERY surprised by the weight loss this morning, especially since I haven’t changed the amount of food I’ve been giving her!!!!!! I think now that she’s up and running around more, that’s what’s helping, maybe getting her metabolism running again? I know she shouldn’t lose too much weight too fast because she can get hepatic lipidosis; I write down her weight every day (me and my poor memory!!!!)—she keeps going up and down in weight from day to day, so maybe tomorrow it will be a little higher.

            I’ve actually got Holly eating food for a 10-pound cat, even a little less than that. When we tried the normal calorie formula for Holly, she still kept gaining weight, so I kept decreasing the calories. She was also really lethargic when I fed her too much, especially on the dry food. Now she gets around 180-190 calories per day. But that includes the calories in the supplements, too (coconut oil, pumpkin, cranimals). Last night Holly kept waking me up for food, even after giving her an extra 5g of chicken for her last meal; maybe I need to increase the calories a little more since she’s using more energy…….I just don’t want her to start gaining weight again, that’s all. It’s so hard to be patient in stuff like this!!!!!!!!! I don’t know how you do it!!!!!!!!

            Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if they want to test Holly’s urine one more time……….”just to be sure”. If I don’t see any blood in the litter, and she’s peeing every day, and she doesn’t look like she’s in pain……….why do I need to have her urine tested again??? Yes, I would consider it if I was only giving her DRY food…………..’cause that’s what started this whole problem in the first place. But since it’s mostly wet food now, and the dry food is healthy (the first few ingredients ARE meat!!!), then no, I don’t think I need to put Holly through the torture again!!!! And when the specialist tested her for the urine infection, she didn’t mention a high ph level or crystals, so I think she should be okay.

            You know, when I was fighting with the vet these last couple of months, I really DID want to find Holly a new doctor; however, I don’t have a lot of options around me, unless I want several long bus rides (not a good option for winter). For the moment, at least, I think we’ll be okay with the vet she has…………..as long as they don’t keep pressuring me to change Holly’s diet………..I won’t do it, but I’m also not going to stand for them trying to twist my arm anymore, either. If Holly continued to get SICKER from the raw diet, then yes, they would have cause to make me change her food; since she’s getting BETTER, there’s no reason for them to nag me about it. Not to mention, there WAS one vet on their staff who ENDORSED the raw food diet……….she was just worried about MY health, with the salmonella stuff. But considering I haven’t gotten sick in the last 28 years of preparing my own meals, I don’t think I’ll have much of a problem!!!!!! I think this vet’s office DOES do an AWESOME job in all other areas, and they HAVE been really supportive when Holly was sick these last months…………I just don’t think they should be in charge of Holly’s nutrition; that’s MY job!!!!!!!!!! I don’t mind them looking after Holly for all other issues, though…………sorry, I don’t mean to be so two-faced; they really ARE good people; they’re just totally against my wishes to feed Holly a natural, healthy diet. Does that make sense?????? Maybe, like you did with Mario, I can show them that cats don’t need chemical medications or cereal diets to get healthy and thrive!!!!!!!!!!! That’s my hope, anyway. Who knows what’s gonna happen!!!!!!!!!!! If it does get worse, though, I will consider looking elsewhere for vet treatment; I just hope I don’t have to.

            Yeah, I was TOTALLY BLOWN AWAY when the specialist said she didn’t care how much Holly weighed…………as long as she could poop!!!!!!!!!!!!! I told her right there, what good is it if a cat can poop, but the rest of her quality of life is miserable?!?!?!??!?!?! She just reiterated that Holly needs to be on a high fiber diet for cats prone to constipation. So many times, when I was challenged about Holly’s diet, I wanted to tell them “well then YOU keep her until she’s feeling better and all her health issues have disappeared…….because I can’t watch her suffering like that, and I don’t want her waking me up every five minutes for food each night!!!!!!!!!!!!” But I held my tongue……….and went behind their backs and did what I thought was right for Holly…….not right for them.

            One of these days, we’ll both have happy, healthy kitties again……….it’s a long road, though!!!!!! I’m glad I’ve got you to help me through it!!!!!!!!!! Take care, Joanne, and have a great afternoon.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 14, 2014 at 6:59 pm #

            ruth

            cats have short digestive tracts not like humans…they eat and it moves through…doubt she is going to get anything. Just prepare the food the way the package says.

            I am beside myself again. All was going well. Tonight, moose decided to crap in his box and it was semi soft…then he went outside the box and it was diarr with chunks. I wrote to steve and dr g. I think it has to do with me feeding him after three hours of last feeding. I may have given him a little too much. I have to re verify my food scale and make sure.

            I may not give him anymore food tonight. Just let his bowel rest. I thought for sure things were looking up. I may have to back down on the evening meal and feed less. It has something to do with the evening serving now. He can go all day long and not crap. So by the time the evening serving comes out, he has eaten almost two cans of food. So, I am going to make him wait at night…And I am going to cut that feeding down by .5oz..

            I am just so frustrated. He does so well and then boom…

          • Ashley October 14, 2014 at 1:31 pm #

            Hi Joanne,

            I just got a response from the specialist’s office (the technician called me); I had emailed her and asked whether I should continue fluids on Holly. The tech asked if I noticed a difference when I gave them, and I told her that on days when she gets the fluids, she’s running around more; days she doesn’t get fluids, she sleeps more. She told me we could continue with fluids for another week, and see if that makes a difference; and if she’s still sleepy without fluids, she recommends a blood test to make sure nothing else is wrong, like with her kidneys or liver (I had asked for this blood test a month ago from the vet who saw Holly when her primary vet was away; I was told to wait for the urinalysis results, and save Holly the stress of having two needles the same day…………..now I have to take her back for another whole visit???…………they get more money (an extra exam fee + the blood work!!!!).

            Part of me wants to get the blood test, just to make sure nothing else is going on. However, part of me is wondering if I’m just throwing out more money. I want my baby to be healthy and happy, and I DEFINITELY don’t want her to suffer…………..after all the fighting I’ve been doing with the vets, I’m not sure what to think!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If Holly were your cat, would you get the blood test done, or wait and keep doing the fluids??????

            I started giving Holly fluids around lunch time………she managed to escape, though, and pulled the needle out before we finished, so she only got 30ml instead of 60ml. I couldn’t bear to poke her again right then, so I told her I’d give her more tonight.

            It’s so hard to know what to do, and whether I’m fighting the blood test or the vets themselves for this decision. And it’s been so long since I’ve seen Holly with so much energy, every time she’s sleeping I worry that she’s relapsing. I guess I shouldn’t worry—cats normally DO sleep a lot. But I didn’t give her fluids yesterday, and today she hasn’t been running around. Frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            I told the technician I would like some more fluids for a week, and if she doesn’t start getting more energy on days I didn’t give her any, I’d take Holly to her regular vet (cheaper than the hospital). Maybe by then, Steve’s supplements will be here, and Holly WILL end up with more energy. Here’s hoping!!!!!!!!!!!!! At least the ER staff is still talking to me……….even though I didn’t put Holly back on the prescription food!!!!!

            I hope your babies are doing well with their diets and supplements!!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 12, 2014 at 5:39 pm #

            hi ruth here is the email I sent but it came back to me.

            i Ruth

            so glad to hear that holly is doing so well. I just want to warn you when you tell the vet, they will flip out. They will say sh@@ that is negative etc. Better yet, unless they ask, say nothing. DMann is wonderful. Whiskers stays on it…And it is for urine and iinflamation of the bladder. I use it with acidifier for whiskers. the more acid, the better than crystals don’t form.

            On the pumpkin, I used an organic pure pumpkin that I bought at sprouts. With moose, it was coming out the way it went in…With whiskers, more diarr and ceasar too. All the cats are going fine…Just waiting on moose now to have a bm…This is how it started before…I noticed he was holding his food in for a long time…There was still some diarr in the beginning. but then I adjusted his feeding too. Moose gets hungry in between feedings cause I weight the food out.

            Good idea on dog food rabbit…I know my cat cans eat a can..So, I would get two feeding. out with an ounce left over. I have heard about freezing foo in trays…when I did raw, it came frozen….I would set the servings out and let them defrost…Sometimes I would forget and have to zap in the micro wave on defrost. I remember when I started feeding raw. whiskers and Mario just loved it. the vet in texas tried to tell me they were going to get sick. I explained to him as Dr G had explained to me. And I told him if he had a problem, to sue the makers. my cats never got sick either. However, I had a couple get sick on science RX and now whiskers got sick on it.

            I am so glad that steve is helping you…You know a lot and just needed a someone with knowledge in holistic to help you out… I need to get an email off to steve later. I was just waiting to see what moose is going to do now.

            Nothing in funner than to show an allopath vet how wrong they really are…Oh yes, the same applies for doctors who pretend to know and then bully us.

            Holly has you for now. So she isn’t alone…Gotta love the pigs…

          • Ashley October 10, 2014 at 12:01 pm #

            Hi Again, Joanne,

            How did Whiskers do at Doc’s today? Did he tell her he was feeling better?!??!?! I hope so!!!!!!!!!

            I might be paranoid, but I’m wondering if someone from the vet’s office has been reading what I’ve written here. After all I wrote to you about the vet’s office not following up like they used to, the vet technician just called me to see how Holly is doing!!!!!!!! I told her that she’s peeing a lot one day and not so much the next, that I’ve cut back on the subq fluids ’cause I was only supposed to give them for 2 weeks, and that she’s pooping every 2-3 days. The tech was very happy. THEN she asked if I was still giving the Fiber Response diet………and I had to tell her no (I can’t lie, even when I want to!!!!). I told her that when I saw what the ingredients really were, I couldn’t continue to feed it to Holly. She asked what was in the diet……and I told her the first ingredient was Brewers Rice; I also told her that for cats, the main ingredient should be MEAT………….and there isn’t even any of that in this diet. I kept apologizing, but she told me that, as long as Holly is pooping every 2-3 days, that was okay. WHEW!!!!!!!!!!!! I felt worse now than when I switched vets in January!!!!!!!! I didn’t mention the supplements, though…….I’ll keep that for another day. One heart attack a day is plenty for me!!!!!!!!

            Hope your baby is doing well, and Doc and Dr. G can get him fixed up as good as new!!!!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 10, 2014 at 8:11 pm #

            Hi Ruth
            whiskers did fine at the vet…she thinks hairballs down the tract.
            Moose kind of had a relapse. I don’t know wy. I am wondering if it is because I let ceasar and calliope come in the family room area where moose is.

            It started when he had a bm, it started out hard, then went soft. I wrote dr g and steve. then he hand another one…all diarr. So I wrote them again.

            I sure don’t understand, but maybe that is part of stabilizing him. steve had me increase his dosage. I give him his products at night. Now I am just waiting until I go to bed before feeding him again. He is asleep and doesn’t appear hungry.

            glad to hear that holly is doing better. and you made a step too. That was great what you said to the tec…good for you.

          • joanne October 9, 2014 at 7:51 pm #

            ok ruth

            I did a search and found some links.

            http://acreaturecomfort.com/holisticveterinarians.htm
            http://www.eastyorkanimalclinic.com/

            here is the whole page by bing.com If you cant pull this page up, I have bookmarked it and can cut and paste more of the vets off this page. They say holistic.

            http://www.bing.com/search?q=holistic%20vets%20toronto%20canada&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=holistic%20vets%20toronto%20canada&sc=1-28&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=408eb09d040f44e295a12e13fb729690

          • Ashley October 9, 2014 at 8:04 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            How did Moose do on his new feeding schedule??? Any more puke??? I hope not, and I hope you all had a restful, uneventful night!!!!

            Holly pooped this morning (HAPPY DANCE!!!!!!)………perfect size,shape, and NO MUCOUS this time!!!!!!!!!! I had increased her Psyllium the last two days (she’s now getting 1/2 tsp 2x/day), and I’m wondering if that helped. I know Pysllium is supposed to help the gut bacteria somehow. The underside of her tail was still stinky and stained yellow/brown, but I’m wondering if (at least this time) she lowered her tail too far when pooping, and got some on her tail. Wish she could reach far enough to clean her own bum!!!!!!!

            GOOD news, though………..Holly is at her lowest weight EVER, since starting her diet/reduced calories!!!!!!!! She kept hovering around 7.99 – 8.02 for the last month; today she was 7.86 kg (17.29 lbs)!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Granted, I weighed her after she had peed and pooped, so I’m sure that had a lot to do with it…………but still, any number lower than 7.9 is good for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Still no word from the vet after my email, but Holly is looking much happier today, so I’m not going to worry. Maybe she was in pain because she had to poop??? Here’s hoping!!!!!!!!

            I hope you and your babies have a good, stress-free day!!!!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • Ashley October 8, 2014 at 8:05 pm #

            Hi again, Joanne,

            I just wanted to see how Moose and Whiskers were doing before I head to bed. Hopefully they are BOTH feeling better!!!!

            I sent Steve an email, asking him what he thought Holly’s wet/stinky bum might be from, if he thinks I need to take her to the vet, or just wait for the supplements to arrive. I never heard back from the vet’s office tonight after I sent them an email, asking if they thought I should bring Holly in. I’ll just keep my eye on her…………hopefully it’s just her body getting used to the raw food diet.

            I hope you all have a great night. Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

          • joanne October 9, 2014 at 9:05 am #

            hi ruth

            well whiskers appears to be doing good. Last night I changed a few things up…mainly when I feed the vs suppls etc. I think I forgot to give moose one does yesterday. Well last night, he had a big thick pile of diarr it wasn’t formed. I wrote to dr g and told and also left steve an email…he is out of town so I should hear from him this weekend.

            two things here, I missed a dose or I could have overfed. dr g put him on sulfur again. I have to go out for awhile, so I want to make sure he gets enough to eat and takes another dose of fc before I go.

            hope all is well with holly. i hope steve has some answers too

          • Ashley October 6, 2014 at 7:42 am #

            Hi Joanne,

            I hope Moose and Whiskers had an uneventful night!!!!

            I just had to write a quick note—-picture me doing my HAPPY Dance!!!!!!!!!!! Holly pooped this morning!!!!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!!!! I warned her yesterday, that if she didn’t poop tonight she was going to have to go back to the vet; she left a present in her box for me this morning!!!!!!!! Ever see anyone so happy to see poop in the litter box???

            Anyway, I’ve got to go find myself some breakfast……….all the dancing has made me hungry!!!!! Hope you all have a good day!!! Take care, ’cause I care.

            Ruth

  2. joanne September 23, 2014 at 8:16 pm #

    I want to thank you for posting about miette. My Moose cat has a similar story to. It started with pancreatitis. He started puking and puking and then after we got that stopped. then the diarrhea started. I took him to the vet here who does western and holistic. I have an online holistic vet too . Between them, I tried many things. I did make one big mistake in the beginning. I switched moose off Natures variety instinct to wellness beef, venison and lamb. it had chicken in it. Moose started out at 18 pounds. He was at 9.4 when I was literally guided to your site. I read the entire story.

    I contacted vitality science. I also contacted my holistic vet. Mooses dose’s have been much different than Miette. But I would like to tell you after being on the suppls for 8 days, his stools are firming up…he isn’t quite back, but he is on his way. I took him to the vet locally. After being on feline comfort and luxolite, he gained .5oz, his ears that were horribly chapped (lack of nutrition were healed and his coat was soft again. I gave all the literature to my local vet. She couldn’t believe. Moose’s gi tract at that time was still distended and he had some bloating. but no gas…The people at Vitality Science have been wonderful. They have emailed me like everyday and answered all my emails. when I called they were there for me. Its been up and down with moose. We have gone very slow with his dosage. He can take 1/2t twice a day. Two doses of feline comfort are 3/8t twice a day and one half teaspoon at night. I weighed him today and he is at 10 pounds. Remember last week when we started he was 9.4. He was skin and bones.

    I lost a kitty to ibd in texas. that was in 2010. My only regret is that I wish I had known about vitality science. I had found my online vet.. We did try many things. She did rally one time. I thought it was a miracle, only to realize it would all return.

    I did switch moose to wellness turkey and duck. Its been eight days…He isn’t quite there yet, but he is almost back in the box. Now and then, he slips. I have seen his bowel well formed and then other times diarrhea. Moose was on steroids for four days and I was able to get him off…

    I have very scared when I started. But the people at Vitality Science have been there for me thus far. I keep logs and every few days I send them so they can look at his progress. I called them on a Friday night just to leave a message. The man who owns the company answered. I chatted with him…then I got hold of my holistic vet and she told me to order. The next day on sat I called again and he answered. He shipped the products out to me and I had them on Monday. I started moose on Tuesday. So its been a week…And for sure I can see results. For anyone who is having so much puking…have your cat tested for pancreatitis. Vitality does have suppls for that too. I plan to put moose on their pet flora and pancreatitis support as he gets healed from the gi tract. Moose still eats about 3 cans of food a day. But I am hoping as he continues to heal, he will eat again like he did before he got sick. IBD basically is a disease where the kitty starves to death. Its horrible. And I just feel terrible to realize what he went through. He has a basic strength to survive. And I just feel that I was guided to your site.

    Please continue to keep your site up and running. And for sure, the kind of food you serve your kitty does matter.

    I also learned with poor nutrition, the coat goes and the ears get nasty chapped and waxy etc. then the weight starts decreasing. And the puking was horrible. One thing I did learn was that moose had an allergy to his food which is really top quality food…no chicken in it…He would just puke and puke. So when I had him tested, it was pancreatitis.

    The vet her thought moose had cancer somewhere in his tract or an organ. I didn’t want to put him through more tests just like MIettes mom…I know what she went through. No one knows until they go through it. I have learned that when they go outside the box, they just cant wait.

    Well we take this one day at a time. tomorrow will mark the 9th day…
    I wish the best for everyone who has been through or going through this ….I told my local vet now she has the resources to let her other clients know where they can go for help.

    Thank you again
    joanne

    • Donna September 24, 2014 at 6:23 am #

      I have a 4 1/2 year old male cat, his name is Boo. About two years ago he was diagnosed with probable Inflammatory Bowel Disease.
      This has to be one of the most frustrating and difficult illnesses to treat. After the diagnosis of IBD and trying the RX diets which did not help I started out with Natures Variety Instinct limited ingredient diet Turkey, in dry and canned.
      This went well for 3 months then the bottom dropped out. He developed Pancreatitis and was hospitalized. Next we tried Natural Balance Duck & Pea also in dry and Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Duck in canned.
      Things went well for 3 months then the vomiting started, lack of appetite, soft stools, this time he had inflammation of the gallbladder and liver, he was put on a liquid medication that reduces the inflammation and supports the gallbladder and Liver for 3 months. So , we switched to a grain free Rabbit dry and Royal Canin Hypoallergenic canned.

      Yep, it has been close to 3 months and I will be taking him to the vet today to have blood work and rule out Pancreatitis or inflammation of his gallbladder and liver again because he has vomited once a day for the past three days and he refuses to eat any of his canned rabbit and of course he is not interested in his dry rabbit either. I had a bag of Holistic select dry grain free Salmon and he will eat that although fish can be a no no for cats with IBD also. .

      He rarely develops right out diarrhea, his stools are usually normal but have had times when they are very soft.
      I am running out of protein sources that he has never ate before, tried Venison and he wouldn’t eat it in the canned and picked at the dry, I stay away from Chicken just for the simple fact that he was eating a food at the start of all of this and chicken was the protein source but it also had some grains in it.

      I give slippery elm (herb) on days when he seems a little off, 1/4 tsp. up to three times a day.This does help coat the intestinal wall and is supposed to help with inflammation.

      I have tried digestive enzymes in the past but did not see any good results and pet probiotics only seemed to make his stools really soft.

      I thought perhaps he just couldn’t eat anything with feathers like chicken, turkey, duck but he hasn’t had any of these protein sources for awhile and apparently rabbit isn’t working either.
      So, diet alone, using one protein source, no grains doesn’t seem to be enough for this cat.
      I am up for any suggestions here.

      • joanne September 24, 2014 at 9:07 am #

        Hi Donna
        I know what you are going through. Please call vitality science. I was pretty much at the end of my rope thinking, this is it for moose. Also the online vet I use is petsynergy. Dr. Gardner is wonderful and really good. there is a consultation fee, but she really knows too. When I started out with moose, she told me order the products and I did. I send the comments from steve at vitality science to her and vice versa…The problem as I have had all of this explained to me is that the gut has to heal. And until that happens, things go ok for awhile and then boom. My local vet who does some holistic and some western told me that cats with pancreatitis have to be monitored. When moose got pancreatitis, he was eating Instinct rabbit wet and dry. I found dry food made him even sicker. When I was looking over the product list at vit science, that is when I saw a product for pancreatitis.

        I don’t do a lot of western medicine anymore. its good for some things, but when it comes to what I have been through with all my cats, I have found holistic works the best. Dr. G worked with me and when whiskers got roden ulcer for the third time. Steroids don’t work. She suggested products and I did everything she told me. it went away and never came back. I have had vets ask me what did she do. Mario came to me with blood sores and itching. All the vets wanted to do was put him on steroids. It took her 10 months total, but she cured him and now he can eat proteins he couldn’t.

        I would contact those people at vit science asap. their claim to have a 97% cure rate with a 100% money back guarantee. today is day 9 with moose. There is no more puking. that stopped really fast. I can tell that he is getting better. Check your cats coat and ears. That is a way of telling what is going on. When I called steve,at vil science, I told him about mooses ears and his coat. he was literally starving. he was eating three cans of food a day. I changed his food from beef venison and lamb. I didn’t realize it had chicken in it. He was on steroids for a short period of time. Allopath vets use steroids and run tests and still cant find out in many cases. My doc here said steroids mask the symptoms. When I took moose into her on day 5, he had gained some weight, ears cleared up and coat was soft again.

        I read on this site an article about cat food. I have two other cats who just don’t like most foods. I started them on hounds and gates…thus far rabbit seems to be their favorite. I also have changed their dry food out too. I am working to get all my cats off dry food. its not good for them. Have you tried raw…Some of my cats will eat it.

        Before you give up, call the folks at vit science. You might have to put your kitty on a limited diet. And you can look up petsyngery ….I really like dr g and have been referring people to her.

        Let me know what you think
        joanne

  3. Liz-cat July 8, 2014 at 10:44 pm #

    This is a special message JUST for those of you who are subscribed to this comment thread.
    I have good news: after much hassle + confusion for some comment-subscribers about how to unsubscribe, AND after way too many spammers leaving comments, I’m going upgrade to a smarter, better 2014 Comments system!
    **The downside is for the folks who are subscribed and want to keep getting updates on this thread: you’ll no longer receive new comments – you’ll have to resubscribe on the new comment system in about 24 hours to get new comments again. Sorry about that.**

  4. Amy Crow November 12, 2013 at 4:30 pm #

    I have a success story to share. My cat KeKe, a 13yr old female Manx, started chronically vomiting about 18 months ago. I promptly took her to my Veterinarian who did a complete blood work up as well as a set of x-rays. Both were normal. She was given Cerenia to stop her vomiting and was given I.V. fluids.

    By Veterinarian recommendation we changed her food to Epigen dry, no starch, no grain. She was also put on Wellness grain free canned food. Both foods worked well for awhile but soon the vomiting began again. Keke went back on the Cerenia again. More blood work (normal) Her food was changed again and again. She was given OTC Mylanta daily which really didn’t help much. She would get a little better only to have the vomiting reoccur. Over the last 1 ½ yrs. her condition continued to get worse and she was getting weaker. She went from weighing 10 lbs to weighing 6 lbs. My Veterinarian continued to see her off and on and diagnosed her with unexplained vomiting and weight loss. He did not rule out cancer. His prognosis: time will tell, sometimes cats vomit and you never find out why.

    Her vomiting got worse over a recent weekend and she started vomiting blood. She had some diarrhea that contained mucus. She stopped eating altogether. I called my Vet once again. He said he didn’t want to treat her and that she needed to see a specialist. I hand fed KeKe pedialyte (for the electrolytes) and honey. I had checked her blood sugar at home, it was 62. I didn’t expect her to make it through the weekend. I could tell she was suffering and I was preparing to have her euthanized. I couldn’t watch her suffer any longer.

    I did some internet research – grasping for anything that may shed light on what was going on with my kitty. I came across the Vitality Science site and I called and talked to Stephen Becker. We talked about how we could stabilize my very sick KeKe. From his recommendation I ordered and was shipped the TRV-Cat Vomit remedy (3- part program). I received it on a Monday and we started her that day on those medications. Well, it has been 2 weeks and she has not vomited once. She has no diarrhea. This medication literally saved her life. She is eating normally and has already gained a little over a 1 lb.

    I’m so very grateful. She would not have lasted much longer. I’m fairly certain the specialist would have recommended that she be put to sleep… My wish also is for Veterinarians to see how valuable the holistic approach can be, that it should be incorporated into their practice and that it really does work.

  5. Karie Karas June 4, 2013 at 9:15 pm #

    My Caroline is 15 years old, has always been fat, happy, lazy and the healthiest of all the household pets. A few months ago she started having loose stool which has gotten increasingly worse until now she can’t make it to the litter box, plus she’s started upchucking lots of liquid, and just not her old happy self. We’ve been to the vet and had: full blood panel; super x-rays and ultra sound, tests for parasites… All has been negative so the vet is guessing she has IBS and prescribed flagyl liquid 2x/day for a week which did not help. We also switched to the dry pea and duck food which she didn’t like at first but is eating. Now the vet is talking about doing an invasive biopsy and going on steroids: I hate both things as have had negative results with older pets before. The vet says Caroline also has a bad back and lots of arthritis. She used to weigh 16+ pounds but has lost down to 14 in the last 3 months, is drinking lots more water, but is not diabetic. Who is Vitality Science and how can I contact them?

    • KARIE August 19, 2013 at 4:40 pm #

      UPDATE to Caroline from June 4’13
      Unbelievable! I called Vitality Science, ordered the recommended Comfort Plus package and started administering. Of course, Caroline was reluctant, but did become hungry enough to eat the food with clay and luxolite mixed in. She did not like and would up-chuck whenever I forced her to ingest the GI Distress so we stopped that one item. After a week she seemed peppier, wanted to get petted and jumping on beds, purring. THEN she made it to the litter box! Little by little her stool became more firm until by the 4th week, everything was perfect. Better than years ago because even her fur in now silky and gorgeous.
      So, I spent $1200 at the vet to be told Caroline’s condition couldn’t be cured and we should do surgery to rule out hidden cancer and give her steroids for comfort.
      Unwilling to accept this verdict, I spent only $90 for this natural IBS cure and my kitty is completely cured and happy. Since then a friend of mine gave it to her dog with same symptoms. YEP, totally cured again.
      Vitality Science didn’t try to sell me any extra products or push me to buy more. They were responsive to all questions and all advice was spot-on correct.

      • Liz-cat August 19, 2013 at 7:22 pm #

        Karie, thank you so much for the update – what great news about Caroline (finally after a long haul)! How wonderful that you were able to help your friend and her dog too. Sorry about all the spam messages coming through on this thread this evening though. I am going to have to change to a different anti-spam system perhaps.

        • KARIE November 21, 2013 at 9:38 am #

          Caroline and company update. I continue to research about pets and people needing food grade clay for proper digestion and IBS relief. It saddens me that for 9 years the vets told me Caroline was just a fat cat who was so content she was happy to lie around and purr. She had IBS early on was bloated and suffering! I’m mostly sad that she was miserable and I didn’t know it. Her stomach lining must have been raw, sore and so painful. The severe diarrhea and vomiting didn’t start until this year, but she’s been ill a long time. Today she is slimmed down- not so much weight loss as bloat loss- and really happy. She can jump up on things, has regained cat curiosity and is playful at 15 years old.

          Thank goodness I found vitality Science on the web and gave a call instead of succumbing to unnecessary invasive surgery and steroids.
          I started giving all the cats Vitality’s clay and probiotic -their coats and tummys have improved. Where Caroline trimmed down, Lena bulked up and Jaki got less cranky. Wild animals in nature eat clay as a normal part of digestive habit. It’s a natural aid for them and humans. Also due to Vitality’s advice we changed foods from what was mostly grain to organic, grain-free, high protein diet. I’m telling everyone i know!
          Shame on the veterinary offices who do not offer this simple, natural cure for our best friends. I told my vet, but doubt anyone was listening.

  6. Mary Anne April 21, 2013 at 5:43 am #

    Hello, I have two kitties, Ricky and Lucy. Lucy is the one I am most concerned with. When I first got them from a person who was going to take them to the pound, they seemed ok. I expected nervousness having their home life changed completely. They both know how much they are loved now, 8 yrs later. Poor Lucy has loose stools and some blood and mucous in them. About 4 yrs ago, the vet told me she has IBS. Now for Ricky. He has a nervous sensitive stomach. They both eat ID gastrointestinal wet food and Royal Canin or ID gastroninal dry food. They do better on the RC as it’s not so dense and easier to chew and digest, I believe. Now for my dilemma, I work, so I feed them twice a day. It’s next to impossible to feed them different foods. They both get worked up and upset if anything changes such as location or being put in a room apart and won’t eat. They are both 11. Lucy has some Maine Coon in her (I’ve bee told). She has long hair and tufts of fur on her paws and ears. She’s adorable but, having loose poop is terrible with her fur. She trusts and lets me clean her but, when I’m not home, well you know the story. Ricky is nervous and jumpy. Any changes and up it comes. The vet recommended they both be on canned food. (gastro ID) Their entire lives they have eaten hard. That was all the previous owner fed them. It’s hard trying to get them to eat the soft they eat now. I cannot afford just the soft food. It would be over 100.00 a month and I end up washing half of it out of their bowls because they just refuse to eat that much of it. The vet said it was okay for them to eat both hard and soft. The previous own showed she cared much more for Lucy than
    Ricky and chased him away. 8 years later I could cry just thinking about it because he’s such a lovable boy. There is competition between them though. I think, because of how he was treated. He wants to be first now that he feels loved. My greatest concern is making Lucy feel better without upsetting either of them. How would I feed her something that would help her without him getting into it? I have tried separating them, to find they have eaten a little and thrown it up and been sick from the whole process. I’m just not sure what to do at this point. Any suggestions would be appreciated. You don’t know how much. Thanks to all, who care enough to post something!

  7. tara March 19, 2013 at 12:21 pm #

    My cat timmy who is 13 is the love of my life……even though he poops everywhere! He started having problems about 9 years ago and has gotten worse every year…. when i come home i have to watch where i step and so do my kids. he is a very loveable cat and just wants to cuddle on you but no one wants a cat that will poop on you while you are watching t.v or sleeping. i have had him on gastro food from the vet and had him on 50mg of metronidazol and it didnt do nothing. his bum get so raw and there is blood in his stool when he eats anything but his gastro food.he is only a tiny boy to begin with but hes now maybe 3and 1/2 pounds …he was the runt and was born with an overbite and i had to hand raise him from 5 days old so he is my son! he does has neruo problems(i call him my special boy)i have another vet apt soon but dont want to put all kinds of meds in his little body but not sure if this would be good for him either…..any thoughts? oh and he has had all kids of blood work and everything came back normal!

    tara

  8. Hairless Cat November 22, 2012 at 5:43 am #

    Hi Liz and Deborah,

    Poor Miette was extremely miserable. I.B.S. is very uncomfortable and stressful. When a person or cat can’t relax due to a disturbed gut, there isn’t much there in terms of perceived quality of life.

    Watching your cat experience constant discomfort and stress is hard and very upsetting. Cleaning up stomach acid and diarrhea isn’t fun. It can make a person feel helpless and at a loss as to what to do.

    When the veterinarians run tests that don’t show anything and prescribe treatments that don’t work, a person can start to feel defeated and hopeless about their cat.

    Good thing you (Liz) have experience with Miette’s symptoms and could provide proper guidance. Recovery may have taken much longer or may not have happened at all.

    Props to Deborah for hanging in there and trying so many things until something finally worked. Not everyone would have stuck it out for so long.

    Glad Miette is feeling better and that you don’t have any more daily cleanups.

    You’re a good cat parent,

    =^-^= Hairless Cat Girl =^-^=

  9. Linda November 20, 2012 at 11:41 pm #

    My cat was just diagnosed with IBD and put on the SAME regime – flagyl (has some other name I can’t remember that starts with an M?), same probiotic, BUT he is starting a round of B12 injections tomorrow – his numbers were off the charts low. The HOPE is that prednisone wont be necessary. I notice you make little to no mention of B12 on this blog but I see it allllll over the Internet when discussing IBD/ GI issues – thoughts???

  10. Elaine Alfaro October 28, 2012 at 11:44 am #

    I just wanted to give another shout out to Vitality Science. My cat, Amos, developed constipation when he was about 18 years old, back in 2008. (I know, this is not IBD, but thought I’d mention Amos’ experience anyway). I just thought this is what happens when you get older, and I added extra fiber to his food, tried homeopathic remedies, slippery elm, etc.. However, it kept getting worse until 1 day I found blood in his litter box after he’d been straining for awhile. So, I immediately made a vet appt. thinking they’d probably prescribe him a laxative and maybe an enema. But it turns out he was extremely dehydrated and needed to stay overnight for fluids and a digital “clean out” to remove any impacted stool. I felt so horrible that I had waited so long, not thinking it was this serious. After bringing him home he was prescribed an antibiotic since they diagnosed him with “colitis” and that he may have a “hidden cancer” (didn’t find much stool as they thought they would, mostly dried blood). This helped, but then after a couple of weeks the constipation started returning. So, off to the vet we went again and he was prescribed the antibiotic again plus a steroid. In the meantime, I searched online and found Vitality Science. I ordered “Feline Comfort” (they didn’t have the Feline Comfort Plus version yet or the Easy Go specifically for constipation, which they now have).” Literally after 2 or 3 doses of the Feline Comfort (I had to mix in water and syringe in his mouth), he had a perfectly normal stool. I almost cried, I was so happy. This was after about 5 months of chronic constipation. Amos didn’t finish the antibiotics and never used any of the steroids. After using the FC daily, I tapered down to 3 times per week, and then just occasionally whenever he had issues. No problems at all with constipation ever again.

    Sorry this post is so long, but just wanted you to understand what a miracle this was for my kitty! It’s definitely worth trying out their products as you have nothing to lose. Products are 100% guaranteed.

    p.s. I don’t work for Vitality Science, by the way. Just a very happy customer.

    • Liz-cat November 14, 2012 at 12:14 pm #

      Elaine, thank you so much for sharing this story about Amos and the protocol that worked for him. I’m sure it will help a lot of people (and their cats).

      The ironic thing is that I’ve successfully managed our cat Joel’s severe constipation with Vitality Science probiotics and pumpkin for a few years, but only recently did it occur to me that we should try a VitalityScience *constipation protocol* that just might bring on *permanent healing!* That would be so great!

      I will undoubtedly report back in a few months on this…
      thanks again,
      Liz

      • Elaine Alfaro January 5, 2013 at 6:03 pm #

        So glad I put in my 2 cents… although reading back on my post I realize it sounds like a commercial! Have you tried the Easy Go product with Joel yet? Obviously, the best thing to do is to figure out the source of the problem. Looking back on Amos’ situation, I think he was already having kidney failure problems and was most likely in a state of chronic dehydration. (wasn’t diagnosed until a year later, however, he was also being treated for hyperthyroidism which can mask kidney failure). I was still feeding dry food (I know, bad!) plus canned, and I think the dehydration contributed to his constipation. Poor guy also had cardiomyopathy, but still hung on until he was almost 20. He was my soul cat – I still miss him 4 years later.

        Now I’ve got a 7-8 year old guy named Izzy, and he’s also got this chronic constipation issue (!!). I haven’t gotten to the bottom of his problem, but I maintain it by adding the Vitality Science Arabinogalactan fiber product to his food daily and the Easy Go product whenever he’s having issues (he’ll eat the Easy Go in a spoonful of tuna). I like the Arabinogalactan so much better than other fiber products like pumpkin. It’s completely tasteless… maybe just slightly sweet. In fact, I add it to my coffee in the morning to help with the acidity (recommended by the VS president, Stephen Becker). I also try to add extra water to his food when I think of it since Izzy very rarely drinks at all. He only eats canned plus a little raw. I also add probiotics and digestive enzymes daily. I’m still working on it… it’s definitely a frustrating condition!

  11. Debrah Edwards September 20, 2012 at 12:20 am #

    I was excited to read this article since I have a 3.5 yo Sphynx Cat who I was told by my vet and 2 other vets had IBS at 1 yo and our story is a mirror image of Deborah’s, HOWEVER, we spent $100’s of dollars on Vitality Science products with no success and as a matter of fact my cat became so immatiated that I was forced to put him back on prednisolone and kept him it until this past April when I became concerned that he may develope diabetes from longterm use of corticosteroids. I attempted to put him on a different steroid that has a lesser chance of causing diabetes, but both times the formulary pharmacy mailed it to me it was warm and the fish based flavoring was spoiled. So I thought I’d monitor his symptoms w/o steroids and everything was going well until this past Friday (09/14/12) when my cat became lethargic and refused to eat or drink.

    After seeing a specialist for a second opinion my beloved Sphynx cat, Mr. Peabody, was diagnosed with a 5cm tumor–large cell lymphoma in his small intestine. Surgery and chemo he would buy him a couple of months. So rather than make him suffer, I have opted for medical comfort care and to spend every available moment with him caring for and loving him until his quality of life dictates that I provide him with a merciful and dignified death which could be any day or week now.

    I have read at least 100 articles online about IBS and IBD and ironically it wasn’t until yesterday that I finally saw one that said “get an gastric biopsy to confirm the diagnosis before treating the symptoms with longterm corticosteroids” (because steroids can mask infections and cancer until it is too late.

    • Liz-cat September 20, 2012 at 8:55 am #

      Deborah, I am so sorry to hear of the large-cell lymphoma diagnosis with your cat. I’ve been there. (It’s a reason I write this blog – to try to prevent tragic epidemics like feline intestinal lymphoma.)

      It sounds like you have made a good choice: comfort care and to spend every available moment with him.

      I also thank you very much for sharing your cat’s story because it brings up some important things for all of us:

      1. As you point out, steroids can mask infections & cancer until they progress to the “too late stage” – so to avoid that, get a biopsy sooner than later if nothing is helping much.

      2. If approaches with food and supplements aren’t helping, get a biopsy. (And if it’s VitalityScience, people should ask for their money back, as that’s their policy.)

      These feline health situations are new & difficult for all of us – but at least we can help each other by sharing our stories.

      • Debrah Edwards September 23, 2012 at 7:26 pm #

        Thank you for your thoughtful responses here and on Facebook. I am a huge fan of your blog and share it with all of my friends and acquaintances who are cat parents.

  12. Rose September 17, 2012 at 4:24 pm #

    OMG, this is my cat to a t. Same type of cat, and we adopted him too. I think the previous owners didn’t want to deal with the vomiting anymore. He has also just started with the diarrhea. He will make one load in the litter box and then step out of it and finish up out of the box with a little blood in it.
    He loves his dry, and would rather starve than eat all wet, so I have him on Wellness CORE® Grain Free Turkey & Duck Cat Food. This is about the only food he will keep down. Anything with chicken in it will make him vomit. I am still experimenting with different brands/flavors of wet. He seems to like Merrick Thanksgiving Day Dinner Cat Food and sometimes Instinct Raw Beef.
    I will check out that company and see what they recommend. I would love to correspond with your friend, since we seem to have identical cats. Maybe she can give me some pointers. Feel free to give her my email address.

    • Liz-cat September 18, 2012 at 6:24 pm #

      Rose, and in another coincidence, Deborah’s last name is Rose! You can contact her through her website: WalkingAlongside.com
      I’m sure you will be able to help your little guy too.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. I have found some great tips and Articles this week I have been emailed to share with you by our dear Feline friend LizCat. The first article is “What To Feed Cats With Feline IBS, Diarrhea, or Frequent Hairballs”… | CHRONICLES OF PRINCE - May 24, 2013

    [...] tuned for that story in an upcoming post (update: it’s here). In the mean time, here’s a hint: seek help from customer service at Vitality Science. They are [...]

Love to hear your thoughts! Leave a Reply...